Timing

quigley · Mar 29th, 2005, 06:23 PM

Recently I bought a custom bike. Ever since I bought it has been hard to start. Now it wont start at all. It turns very briefly and then hangs up. I have replaced the starter, the bendix gear and the battery. Its a 96in S&S. It acts like its out of time. Anybody know of a manual to show me how to time this motor. Or can anyone tell me how to do it? No points or condensor.
Thank You Quigley

CD · Mar 30th, 2005, 07:38 AM

Every EVO service manual both OEM or aftermarket has the procedure in them. You can static time, use a timing light and a lot of the aftermarket ignitions have timing LED's on them.

However, from what you describe it almost sounds like typical starter kick back.

It would help if you can give more details of what happens and what you have.

Fully charged battery? When it did start was it running correctly? When you first hit the start button does it act like the battery is dead then spin over?

If you remove the plugs, will it spin over?

Here is a link to a good timing article
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/i..._timing_00.htm

hotroadking · Mar 30th, 2005, 08:28 AM

Check the wires going to ground and the starter make sure they are not loose and under the ground should be a star washer that digs into the powdercoat, you can scrape away a bit of the paint/powdercoat to make sure the battery ground is getting a good ground.

maxpower_hd · Mar 30th, 2005, 08:59 AM

I've had this issue with a 100" Revtech. I replaced the flat, aluminum ground strap and power cable with very heavy 4 gauge round cables. I believe they were called Ultraflex. That completely solved the problem. I also scraped the powdercoat down where it was mounted to the frame.

Good luck.

quigley · Mar 30th, 2005, 04:50 PM

Fist of, thanks to everyone for trying to help. I checked the cables and they seem fine, and I have a good ground. Took a fresh fully charged battery, the motor turned over slowly but wouldnt fire. Did that two or three times. Then it started to turn over and hang up like the battery was dead. Took jumper cables and hooked up to my truck. Same thing, it would start to turn over and hang up. The starter is getting hot at this point. Took the inspection plate of, started to play with the timing. The more I turned the timing the better it seem to turn over. Finally the motor fired. Let it run for a while and tried it again. It started again. Did that a few more times and each time I got it to start, however it still hang ups, at which point I release the starter button and try again, but at least it now fires up. I think the next thing would be to take it the dealer and let them take a look at it.
Quigley

maxpower_hd · Mar 31st, 2005, 05:41 AM

I would still replace the cables before you bring it to the dealer and spend mucho denero. Just my opinion. Even if you just go to the local auto parts store and by the thickest they carry. They are fairly cheap and will at least do no harm. The thicker gauge cable has less resistance and as a result makes for easier starts.

The 100" Revtech I mentioned in my earlier post exhibited the exact same symptoms you describe. The starter would get hot, it would start really hard and hang up like you say. We did all the things you mentioned but we never brought the bike to the dealer. My buddy kept running it like that all summer. Eventually the power cable got so hot that it completely melted the insulation. Finally, The guy at the local shop told us he sees this all the time with kit bikes and custom builds and recommended the cables. That fixed everything. It's now been two years and all is well.

Spending a few dollars now might save you a few hundred down the road at the dealer. You may find that all you did was advance the timing rather than fix it which could cause other issues.

Remember, just because they work for the dealer doesn't necessarily mean they're good. I know there are good mechanics that work for dealers but I've also heard of and have had problems with dealer work.

Good luck!

quigley · Mar 31st, 2005, 07:25 AM

You are right, spending a couple of dollars on new cables is a good idea. Like you say, it cant hurt and probably help.
Thanks Quigley

HDRider · Mar 31st, 2005, 02:44 PM

Hi Quigley.

HDRider · Mar 31st, 2005, 03:07 PM

Hi Quigley.
It would be helpfull to know what ignition you are running in your bike also you need to check the static compression that could very well be an issue. Let's start with the ignition, let's assume that it is a Crane HEI4, Pull your cover on the right side of the engine and confirm that is is Crane. Now on the left side of engine remove the timing plug located at the base and between the cylinders, Jack up the rear tire and get your bike in fifth gear using the slack in the powertrain bump your engine over until the straight slash mark is centered, now bump it back until it is about on line thickness before center. At this point remove both spark plug wires. Now go to the right side and loosen the plate screws on the module turn on the ignition and rotate plate just until the led light comes on tighten screws, check the advance pot on the module to how much advance it has, if it is at 2 oclock back it up to 12 oclock if it is at 12 back it up to ten. That should get you in the ball park when you ride it if it has preignition rattle keep backing down the pot until it quits. Now for the compression if you ride has a S&S cam in it the static compression might be to high, this is due to the valve overlap built into the cam or someone could have advanced the cam 4 degrees on the gear at any rate you need to pull your plugs get a screw in type compression gauge spin your engine over until it makes max reading on both cylinders and see what you have. If it is over 200psi that could very well be an issue with hard cranking. I only use Crane Hi Roller cams in my work for this very reason hope this help.

HDRider

CD · Mar 31st, 2005, 04:10 PM

http://biketalk.directparts.com/faq....q=new_faq_item

quigley · Apr 7th, 2005, 06:45 PM

So after buing a starter, battery and cables, messing with the timing till I was blue in thre face, I figured out why this thing is hard to start. HIGH COMPRESSION. Apparantly I have a high compression motor. After checking on the web, there are alot of people out there with same problem. Bought a set of compression release plugs [they screw right in to the spark plug hole, they have a little valve on them and before you start the motor you push in the valve and it releases the compression as the motor turns over, once it starts the valves pop out]. The motor now spins easy and fast and it fires right up. Best thing out there for high compression motors. Up and riding again.
Quigley

Timing

Timing

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