[johndublu]

[b]I recieved a free copy of the April American Rider magazine, in there parts section. The article is named Why the 2006 Dyna's tell the future. It goe's on to say that these changes were made for Riliability reasons. The changes are as follows:

1- The oil filter housing and the and the integral right side of the crank case oil passages have been changed.

2- The inner primary mounting bolt patternhas been changed and the sprocket has been changed fom 10 splines to 24 splines.

3- The outter cam drive chain has been replaced with a roller chainand hydraulic tensionerswhich minimizes chain slack.

4- The inner cam drive chain has also been replaced with a roller chain and hydralic chain tensioners.

5- The new cam mounting plate supports are made from a new grade aluminum alloy.

6- The new motor uses a very differant type of camshaft. The older cam is made from single forging that is then machined.. The new cam technology has been common in the automotive industry for many years.

7- The engines lubicating oil runs through the cam plate to the pinion shafts
have been changed.

8- Inner cam bearing is now finally being addressed. I thought this had been fixed from the late 2000 models well guess what there just now replacing the cam bearing with a larger one with two additional larger rollers. Are we done nope not quite

9 Yep a new oil pump that delivers 60% more oil than the previous pumps.

10- The new motor now has all new oil passages between the transmission and the transmission mounting flange'

11- The new motor has differant valves.

12- The new motor now has differant valve springs. Instead of a double spring they have a single with a beehive shape that is better and stronger.

The article shows the existing parts and the replacement parts.
I have a 2001 Harley Low Rider. I was led to believe that this cam bearing problem was taken care of in the late 2000 Harley models.
They are saying that these are reliability up grades. To me that means that all these parts that were replaced are un reliable. They are also saying not not to do added power increases to this motor because of the unreliable parts. Please contact me and let me know if you feel as bumed out as I do over this article. I know Harley Davidson would never replace one single part if there was a way to get around it. Pick yourself up this magazine and see the up grades for yourselfAmerican Rider April 2006

[chucktx]

all mfg. including moco has upgrades every year. if you research harleys history, they have done upgrades almost every year. i dont understand what you mean by not increasing hp. every year model there are many people and dealers that up the hp of the engines. upgrades are progress in development.
chuck

[Killer-B]

Yup, that's why an upgrade is called an upgrade and not an downgrade...

[johndublu]

Go to RB Racing, after emailing them the article the got back to me and said that Harley Davidsons Twin Cam was JUNK. I don't know the inner workings of a Harley motor but it looks to me like these people have gone beyond Harley Davidson's ability to build a motor that has all the bells and whistles. What bothers me is harley Davidsons are the most expensive cruiser out there. Why are we not getting a superior engine for that price?
06' Dual O2 Sensor Systems / RSR Air Fuel Gauges

06' Dual O2 Sensor Systems / RSR Air Fuel Gauges



For 2006 The Dynas have dual O2 ports. We have prototyped a range of exhausts for the 2006 Dyna models. A 2006 Street Bob with a LSR 2-1 Black Hole is shown. We experiment with a number of options to find the best overall design.

Since we have been doing closed loop fuel injection systems for Harleys for more than 17 years and have been putting O-Sensor Ports in our exhausts for the same amount of time, we have dual O2 ports for the 06 models for our full range of exhausts. Our RSR Air Fuel Ratio Gauge is the best investment you can make for these.

All LSR 2-1 and Nitro Dual exhausts can be ordered with two O2 ports. Actually O2 sensors are a really neat item. We should know, as we have a lot of experience with them. Tuning strategies are different and there are a lot of things that can go awry if you forget about temperatures, pressures etc.
From RB Racing:
Pretty soon Harleys will all be watercooled then you really won't be able to tell the difference between Milwaukee and Hammatsu. "The Man" will be sniffing your butt and planting microchips and gps modules up your ass so they can mail you a speeding ticket and keep track of your movements. They already have data recorders on your car so they know what you were doing when the biggie happened. Brave new world.

[CD]

R&B racing...knowledgeable, makes some good products but have a bad rep for support and service. Their saying that the TC888 is junk makes very little sense...Where did they say that in your quote?

As far as it goes, R&B is not an extremely well known company compared to others such as Zippers and S&S both of them support the TC88.

Think about this for a moment. Every year there are engineering changes to cars. If they improved the handling and performance of your Toyota, would you still be complaining?

Evolution of an engine is normal. The Shovel evolved a lot over it's run as did the EVO. Things change and improvements are made. Reliability concerns are addressed as are leaks and noises etc, etc, etc. Making more power is not going to be major concern when the major goal is reliability. Want big power? Lot's of ways to do it. Break your engine? Don't blame the Mo Co.

[GreyBear]

Well it is a bit early to know for sure since it has less than 500 miles on it yet. But I have been riding HD's for a lot of years Pans, shovels, blockheads even one flathead and a knuckle. Built some fair big inch motors and seen a lot of changes. The new dyna is a great bike. The 88TC has power and moves ya down the highway good. Have never been into one...yet. But the changes they have done sound solid. Like was said earlier in the thread every manufacturer upgrades and refines all the time. (Back in the old days they didn't and they **** near lost the farm because of it) I have a 96 Dodge ram 4X4... in the tem years since I bought it they have changed a whole lot on the Dodge trucks....that doesn't make mine junk just an older version. But as to the dynas we will just have to wait and see if I still like it in 2016...it is a good bike....Ride Free

[johndublu]

Originally Posted by chucktx

all mfg. including moco has upgrades every year. if you research harleys history, they have done upgrades almost every year. i dont understand what you mean by not increasing hp. every year model there are many people and dealers that up the hp of the engines. upgrades are progress in development.
chuck

\

Chuck yes other companies do upgrades but replacing 15 important parts in one shot tells me there were serious problems with the design of this motor. Look at the evo after 14 years of changes they scrap the motor completly yet s&s makes it work just fine why?

[CD]

Originally Posted by johndublu

\

Chuck yes other companies do upgrades but replacing 15 important parts in one shot tells me there were serious problems with the design of this motor. Look at the evo after 14 years of changes they scrap the motor completly yet s&s makes it work just fine why?

John,
You're right, that 2001 is junk. If you want some real quality get a Roadstar or any other Metric. Since your 2001 is junk according to the great people of R&B, the sales price should be pretty good for the new owner.

Seriously, if you think the EVO or the Shovels etc had few redesigns, think again and, again. The EVO had case design changes, never eliminated the INA inner bearing which destroyed far more engines, had oiling problems the same as it's predecessors, could not be built reliably above 88" on stock cases, EFI bikes warped the rear jugs regularly, cases cracked between lifter blocks, cases had porosity problems allowing oil into the primary, crank case venting was a major issue...

The cam bearing problem was not related to the inner bearing. It addressed the outer bearings. Ball bearings were used on both cams when there should have been one roller and one ball bearing. INA bearings (junk) were used since the Shovel days.

The other changes I see were done as improvements. You are lamenting the fact that the changes done to the 2006 were not done to the 2001? How could H-D know what needed to be changed in 2001? The TC was only three years old. It does take a while to find flaws and address them.

S&S making EVO's work while H-D didn't? Give me a break. S&S is a high performance company it is their niche. They didn't make Shovels back then, they made parts for Shovels. The did not make cases for EVO's, they made parts for EVO's. S&S has grown into what it is by improving performance and reliability. S&S and others starting building big inch EVO's using their cases etc. We had S&S engines fail and the warranty (six months after shipping) had expired. It takes time to build a bike and if the engine blows, we ate the bill. It got to the point that we did not use the engine for mock up and ordered it when the bike was near completion. Or, we did not use S&S and used RevTech instead. S&S was forced to change the warranty by pressure from TP Engineering, Merch and little old RevTech.

Engines evolve, just as suspensions, fuel delivery, frames, controls etc do.

I'd continue but I have the feeling you're the type that sees clouds on a sunny day.

[softtail]

Originally Posted by johndublu
Quote
"Chuck yes other companies do upgrades but replacing 15 important parts in one shot tells me there were serious problems with the design of this motor. Look at the evo after 14 years of changes they scrap the motor completly yet s&s makes it work just fine why? "Quote


That is pretty narrowminded thought when you consider that the HD MOCO builds how many thousands of bikes a year to be owned and ridden by how many different riders? With that amount of abuse being excersized to it's product there will be issues that to the majority of the users is not an issue at all.

The MOCO must warranty their product to all these abusers and provide a reliable product to the public. The aftermarket gets to reap the rewards of all the work by the MOCO to design and manufacture it's product. and gets to go out and provide its product because they took the MOCO's product and "abused it to death" .

Personally, I will use an aftermarket part if I choose, for what ever reason. But I also believe the HD MOCO builds a GREAT product in what ever form!!!!

Ride Safe
Softtail

[bikerjim1]

Just out of curiosity John, what do you ride,....or do you? No props, just a serious question.