[J R Canaguier]

I recently installed a gear drive with 510 cams on my 03 Dyna twin cam motor. The engine now makes a very loud valve clatter rattle as if it is out of oil. The lifters are stock HD. I use HD Synthetic oil. Why is this happening and what can I do to correct it?

[fatboyvtwin]

When you changed out the cams, did you install adjustable pushrods? I hope ya did...Let us know, Ride Safe, David.

[J R Canaguier]

Hi. Thanks for the response. I did install the adjustable pushrods and we readjusted the valves after about 500 miles of putting in the cams. I did not, however, change the lifters and I'm thinking that the stockers are not letting enough oil get to the top end after it gets hot, so I am installing a set of Jim's lifters. Will this fix the problem? Thanks again.

JR

[fatboyvtwin]

In my opinion I think that your present lifters are in good working order, considering the year of your bike I would assume that the lifters are working as they should. You have to understand that when you go from stock chain driven cams to gear driven cams you will more than double the output of noise that is made coming from the cam gears. Also the adjustable pushrods will increase the noise somewhat. So between the two add ons, (Gears & rods) I think you will always have the existing noise. When I had my 1998 Fatboy I too installed a new cam with new adjustable rods but left the lifters as stock and the bike ran good for years and years. One of the few ways the stock lifters wouldn't be bringing oil to the top of the motor is if you left a piece of a gasket behind in the lifter. I think once you go with the Jim's lifters, the noise will still be there, Let me know. Hope this helps. Ride Safe, David.

[J R Canaguier]

Thanks for the info, david. I am aware that there is more valve noise excpeted with the mods I have made, but the noise coming from my engine is way beyond what is expected. The sound of the clatter almost drowns out the pipes, as if there is no oil in the engine at all. I am going to install the Jim's lifters this week and see what happens. I would rather go back to stock cam chain setup than have to listen to the valve clatter. I will continue trying to quiet the valve clatter no matter what and I will keep you informed.

You seem to be very knowledgable about HD engines and performance so I'd like to ask your opinion on what pipes I should be running. After pretty extrensive research I came up with the Vance & Hines 2 into 1 Pro Pipe HS. Everything I've heard has been good. Right now I have stock headers with Screaming Eagle mufflers, Dyno Jet carb kit and K&N Filter. Is it customary to get jetting specs with the new pipes? You response is valued.
Thank you. JR

[fatboyvtwin]

JR. Like I have mentioned in the past when a person asks about which is the best oil, seats, exhausts, etc. Most people have there favorites for whatever reason that has made them happy and produced the best results for them.
I have owned many Harley's in the past 22 years of riding bikes and have experimented with different oils, seats and lastly the exhaust. A few years ago I bought a 2004 Road King Classic and installed the stage 2 big bore kit and have over 30,000 invested in my bike. I have tried several seats over the years on all of my bikes and have found that the Corbin (for me) is the best long haul (800 Mile days) seat I have tried. The next is oils, I run screaming eagle synth oil in the motor, primary and tranny. I have also had great luck with the synth oils. Now for the exhaust, I have always ran the Vance & Hines. On the 2004 RD I am running the 2 into 1 HS Pro pipes, and have been very happy with the look, sound, and performance of the V&H. Everyone has there favorites but for me I would suggest the V&H 2 into 1 HS Pro pipes. And yes you will have to re-map your computer to adjust the fuel/air mixture thru your fuel injection. If your running a carb, you'll have to re-adjust the flow with new jets. Ride Safe, David.

[J R Canaguier]

Thanks David. I really appreciate the advice. I will be adding a set of Vance & Hines pro pipes and keep you informed on the valve thing.

C ya. JR

[Seahag]

Originally Posted by fatboyvtwin

In my opinion I think that your present lifters are in good working order, considering the year of your bike I would assume that the lifters are working as they should. You have to understand that when you go from stock chain driven cams to gear driven cams you will more than double the output of noise that is made coming from the cam gears. Also the adjustable pushrods will increase the noise somewhat. So between the two add ons, (Gears & rods) I think you will always have the existing noise. When I had my 1998 Fatboy I too installed a new cam with new adjustable rods but left the lifters as stock and the bike ran good for years and years. One of the few ways the stock lifters wouldn't be bringing oil to the top of the motor is if you left a piece of a gasket behind in the lifter. I think once you go with the Jim's lifters, the noise will still be there, Let me know. Hope this helps. Ride Safe, David.

I don't know if you intended to exagerate this or just don't have the first hand experience with quiet running gears. Either way, I have to strongly disagree with that statement. There are many people running gear drive cam sets that can barely hear them if at all...and the problem with adjustable pushrods isn't with the pushrods per se; but the fact that not all people who use them buy oversized pushrod tubes. The larger diameter of the adjustable pushrods will sometimes vibrate on the stock pushrod tubes causing a lot of excess valve train noise.

JR. Did you by chance have some headwork done at the same time as your cams? The reason I ask is that often headworkers will install upgraded valve springs of higher pressure. This pressure fights against the lifter and contributes to them bleeding down. The other option would be the lifters not staying pumped up for whatever reason. To combat this I recommend you follow through with the new lifters of your choice. For the mild cams you are using, any brand will do...even stock HD lifters. It is usually recommended that you change your lifters with a new set of cams anyway as the roller on the cam may have "worn in" to the prior cam and not be running completely true. Next I'd recommend the Baisley oil spring. This is an upgraded spring to the oil pressure relief valve in the cam support plate. This raises oil pressure by 15%; which helps to keep the lifters pumped up...which in turn keeps the valve train tighter and eliminates noise. The more expensive version of this can be had by buying a Fueling oil pump. To get ahold of Baisley to order this spring call Baisley performance to order the LMR-002. 5511 N Interstate Portland Ore. 97217 (phone#503-289-1251) pn. LMR-002 15% $15.55 delivered.


I installed the baisley spring in my bike a year ago and the valve train clatter went from the same annoying rattle that you describe to the mechanical equivalent of a loud, heavy duty sewing machine.

[J R Canaguier]

Thanks for the reply. I tend to have a lot more faith in your explanation of the problem than the previous responses. What you described is exactly what I came up with. I am a mechanical engineer and I know a little about hydraulics. I will order a Baisley spring and install it with the Jim's lifters. I don't think the pushrods are hitting the tubes because I think that would be a totally different sound than what I'm hearing. There was no head work done when I installed the cams and gear drive and the valve springs are stock HD. Thanks again for the info. I'll let you know how it tuns out.

C ya JR

[00 wildglide]

HEY SEAHAG,
Great reply,As I to have gear drive cams in my 95"DYNA(570 S&S)& hear more mechanical noise,But not an abnormal amount &/or "doubled" amount of noise.I've found it's much cheaper & less frustrating to do more research first before throwing parts at your machine.(just my opinion)

[J R Canaguier]

I installed the new Jim's llifters but with the nasty weather have not been able to put many miles on the bike. I did notice, tho, on the way home from the shop that it sounded much quieter. I adjusted pushrods to specs and tightened them about a half thread more, then I fattened up the pilot jet and raised the needle one notch. It was running very lean before so I knew this would only help. If the rain ever quits I will be doing a 1500 mile Iron Butt ride. I'll give you an update when return.

Thanks for all the input.

JR

[RedDawg]

I was wondering if the oil pump seals might be a cause of low oil pressure to the heads? I have heard that there are more issues with oil pump seating and seals during a cam upgrade. Any thoughts? Gasket/Seals issues for the lower end?