[AmphibSailor]

I've got an 03 SuperGlide that is a California Bike. I have a Pro Pipe on it and will soon be putting an Arlen Ness Big Sucker on. I figure that I will need to rejet the stock carb but all the kits that I've seen say not for California bikes. What's the difference? What am I getting myself into...

I am not from California and will not be riding, there. I am in the military and am stationed oversea at the moment. I will be returning to Texas in the not so distant future, but want to complete the stage 1 on my bike.

[chucktx]

i believe what they are telling you when they say "not for califorina" is when installed it will not pass their emmisson laws. like changing pipes, will not pass the emmission test. hope this helps
chuck

[2fastnaz]

Yeah I'm almost 100% certain you'll be fine. It just means that it hasn't been aproved by the good folks ( ) at CARB (Cali. Air Recources Board)

Back when I was stationed in San Diego I had to sign a waiver saying that the carb I ordered on line would not be used on a California Liscensed vehicle or they wouldn't ship it to me there. What ever, I had Arizona Plates so..........

[AmphibSailor]

Thanks for the replies. I figured as much too. I did find another thread over at VTwinForum talking about a something similar.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/sh...ght=california

When I get back home (in about a week), I'll break out the parts manual and see if there are different part numbers for the carb, cam, etc. I don't think so, after reading the thread above. I did see somewhere, though that some California bikes are jetted leaner.


Anybody know how tough Texas law is on motorcycle emissions? I might end up retiring there and don't want a major headache. I do have the original pipes. I believe that there is a catalytic converter in one of them.

[chucktx]

it will be determened by where you live. i live in a county that has no emmission testing, but the county to our south does. if you going metropolis, there will be testing, rual, most likely not.....hope this helps
chuck

[AFNurse]

right now, San Antonio has no emissions testing. I HAVE heard rumor that they are trying to hit bikes on the registration end of your pocket......one proposal (don't think it passed) was that you would pay 1$/CC YEARLY to register...... went against some law already on the books, so was not implamented, HOWEVER.....from what I have heard, Austin may be getting squirly on bikers and bikes......

[GreyBear]

This is a good place to ask something I have been told but can't find an answer to. The head wrench at the Stealership, a pretty knowledgable guy, was telling me that since '03 (I might have the year wrong, we were enjoying a frosty adult beverage or three) that ALL Harleys manufactured for sale in the US meet California emissions standards, if left stock. Which is why they run so poorly without a stage one at least. Anyone know if this is scuttle butt or fact?

Ride Free.......

[kenfuzed]

That might be partially true, but here in California all Harleys have been coming with an integrated catalytic converter inside one muffler since around 2002 or 03. I've seen mufflers coming off of other state bikes without that same muffler. I've also seen bone stock carbs come in all jetted different depending on area. Sometimes what the moco says and does is two different things.

[Pixs]

Originally Posted by GreyBear

This is a good place to ask something I have been told but can't find an answer to. The head wrench at the Stealership, a pretty knowledgable guy, was telling me that since '03 (I might have the year wrong, we were enjoying a frosty adult beverage or three) that ALL Harleys manufactured for sale in the US meet California emissions standards, if left stock. Which is why they run so poorly without a stage one at least. Anyone know if this is scuttle butt or fact?

Ride Free.......

The bikes that are manufactured to meet CARB standards are definately different. The EPA rules on exhause emmissions apply to 1972 and later bikes.

Calafornia bikes have a canister filter for the fuel tank vent that includes a butterfly valve in the back of the aircleaner directing overflow vapor to the inlet valves through the Carburator or injector body, no real effect on performance. Jetting on carburator models may have different size jets, check your shop manual.

EPA standards do not require the vent/canister system.

Calalitic converters are required in CA and probably in other states. The CARB (California Air Resources Board) has been busy raiding some high profile builders to make an example out of them, however all builders of 10 or more bikes/year are subject to their raids. Individuals will get the treatment after 2008. As if the State of Fruits and Nuts had nothing better to do.

I'm infavor of not breathing poisoned air but I think the crack down is laughable. Arnold, after all, has 6 hummers. The freeways are choacked with huge SUVs that get around 9 miles/gal. These are basically 9 pasenger vehicles that are usually driven solo. Bikes are usually ridden at 100% capacity about 65% of the time and get about 45 mpg for a gas guzzler. I think the effort is misdirected.

Eventually, if history is any indicator of the future, we all will be faced with emasculated bikes. Bottom line, modify your bike to your labido's content but save all the parts you remove. The smog police will get you eventually. If you do need to lower your emissions, a DFO may come in handy. You could dose a tank of gas with a very high voluum of alcohol and adjust the dfo to get it running right for the test. Carburated bikes, increase the jet size by 40% and run alcohol. You will have the testor scratching his/her head.

Crime does not pay as well as politics. We, as a groupe, are vulnerable to "do nothing" politicians that need some feel good facts to tell their consitutents what a good job they are doing, saveing them from evil bikers and their poluting motorcycles! I wounder just how a Stage I TC stacks up against a Hummer or Surburban for total emissions output/mile? Anyone know?



Hope this helps

.ps for legal advice, check with a laier, errr, excuse me, lawyer

[AmphibSailor]

Thanks for the helpful information. Like you advised, I am saving the pipes that I pulled off...when I take the canister off, though...I'll probably keep it just in case.

[Pixs]

Originally Posted by AmphibSailor

Thanks for the helpful information. Like you advised, I am saving the pipes that I pulled off...when I take the canister off, though...I'll probably keep it just in case.

Ooops, I forgot,

I haven't checked my Dyna but my Sportster has a vacuum switch to open the vent tube to the canister. remove the hose after the vacuum switch and rout under the gas tank. The output from the vacuum switch is routed into the frame on the 49 State Sportster, again, not sure about the Dyna.

[ringo912]

I'm with you pix...I don't want to breath posion air either. Howver, not sure why the big push from the EPA on the bike world. If you look at the statistics on the EPA web site, motorcylces only account for 1/10 of 1% percent of the total air polution. They claim it's not just the air polution, but it's also the noise and comtaminated solids we expell form our exhaust. They claim we are poluting the landscape as well. When it rains all those solids we spewed out run off into ponds and onto farmland.

What's really ironic is, I hear that someone in the state of California is suing General Motors for building automobiles. They calim GM is responsible for all the air polution. That's kinda of interesting considering their Governor owns 6 Hummers.

[2fastnaz]

When I lived In Ca. I proved over and over again my hot rods would run just as clean as any of the new engines, minus the lead. I guess the Gov just don't trust us to keep our stuff tuned correctly.

I heard from a couple of guys that I know who are going to MMI here in Phoenix that starting next year (IIRC) all new bikes are going to have Cats in them. Harley started last year ???>

They have just changed the smog laws in Phoenix and Tucson. Now in Tucson (Pima county??) collector cars that are driven less than 2000 miles per year (with collector insurance)and bikes don't have to smog. In Phoenix only collector cars got cleared. They said there were to many bikes registered in Maricopa county (Phoenix) and they would negativly impact the air quality. I call Bull ****.

[Pixs]

Originally Posted by ringo912

I'm with you pix...I don't want to breath posion air either. Howver, not sure why the big push from the EPA on the bike world. If you look at the statistics on the EPA web site, motorcylces only account for 1/10 of 1% percent of the total air polution. They claim it's not just the air polution, but it's also the noise and comtaminated solids we expell form our exhaust. They claim we are poluting the landscape as well. When it rains all those solids we spewed out run off into ponds and onto farmland.

What's really ironic is, I hear that someone in the state of California is suing General Motors for building automobiles. They calim GM is responsible for all the air polution. That's kinda of interesting considering their Governor owns 6 Hummers.

Somebody's gotta do it, kinda like climbing a mountain just because it's there.

Since when did politicians pay any attention to facts. The only reason that crap get passed into law anywhere is that someone with a lot of political clout is pushing them or the politician needs a cause to show what a good job he/she is doing. Being a member of the motorcycle fraturnaty get you classified as, as Arlo Guthry once said," he's the last guy, he doesn't have a dime to call the FBI, screw him". Fact is we don't count, just like being unemployed, poor, non English speaking, etc.

Best you can hope to do is join ABATE and hope that they will get someone to listen to reason.

Seems to me the 3 piece patch holders do get some attention, but not untill they spend large amounts of money in court battles. One case that comes to mind: 1984 (George Orwell would love this) the Hells Angels Ventura Chapter put up $3,000.00 so their Pres. George Christie, could run a mile (he is an avdid runner) carring the Olympic Tourch. When the time came to specify where the money would be spent, the Angels picked the Special Olimpics. Unis Kennedy was on the Olympic commettee (I think she was the chair) and refused and sent the money to the general fund. Readers Digest Version: long, expensive court battle; the Special Kidds got their money! One for the Red and White (good guys).

I guess that enough of us don't have the will and money to go up against "Big Brother" and a good deal of us are too dumb to see the truth about what motavates politicians or the news pimps.

[Pixs]

Originally Posted by 2fastnaz

When I lived In Ca. I proved over and over again my hot rods would run just as clean as any of the new engines, minus the lead. I guess the Gov just don't trust us to keep our stuff tuned correctly.

I heard from a couple of guys that I know who are going to MMI here in Phoenix that starting next year (IIRC) all new bikes are going to have Cats in them. Harley started last year ???>

They have just changed the smog laws in Phoenix and Tucson. Now in Tucson (Pima county??) collector cars that are driven less than 2000 miles per year (with collector insurance)and bikes don't have to smog. In Phoenix only collector cars got cleared. They said there were to many bikes registered in Maricopa county (Phoenix) and they would negativly impact the air quality. I call Bull ****.

See above, please.

[kenfuzed]

If you are worried about having your motorcycle be compliant or able to pass any future emmisions testing, here is what I suggest (and do myself).

Back in the late 70's - early 80's most cars came with "smog pumps" (at least here in California). It was nothing more than a belt driven pump for iluting and recirculating exhaust gases. Many people would remove them or cut the belt to reduce the belt drag on the engine. When it would come time to get a smog inspection, everyone would simply reinstall the pump.

The point is, you could do the same with your motorcycle. Remove your canister, catalytic converter mufflers, and stock aircleaner in exchange for the typical stage 1 modifications. Box up all your stock parts and store it. If/when you are required to submit to an emmisions inspection you could reinstall all the required parts.

It's important to hold onto those old parts for a couple reasons.
1. if you get rid of the parts you may need to buy them again later if needed.
2. If you ever trade in your bike at a dealership, they are required to return the bike to state standards in order to resell. Naturally the dealer will want to deduct from your trade-in the cost of updating the bike back to standards.

Back to the 70's-80's scenario, many would toss out their smog pumps or they would seize when the belt was removed (carbon deposits). Then when it came time to smog or sell their car they would have to either buy a new one or go scrounge the junk yards. Some scrap yards got wise to this and started charging a premium for pumps... because they could. So hold onto your old emmisions parts, otherwise you could end up paying big $$ when faced with making your bike compliant.

[Pixs]

Originally Posted by kenfuzed

If you are worried about having your motorcycle be compliant or able to pass any future emmisions testing, here is what I suggest (and do myself).

Back in the late 70's - early 80's most cars came with "smog pumps" (at least here in California). It was nothing more than a belt driven pump for iluting and recirculating exhaust gases. Many people would remove them or cut the belt to reduce the belt drag on the engine. When it would come time to get a smog inspection, everyone would simply reinstall the pump.

The point is, you could do the same with your motorcycle. Remove your canister, catalytic converter mufflers, and stock aircleaner in exchange for the typical stage 1 modifications. Box up all your stock parts and store it. If/when you are required to submit to an emmisions inspection you could reinstall all the required parts.

It's important to hold onto those old parts for a couple reasons.
1. if you get rid of the parts you may need to buy them again later if needed.
2. If you ever trade in your bike at a dealership, they are required to return the bike to state standards in order to resell. Naturally the dealer will want to deduct from your trade-in the cost of updating the bike back to standards.

Back to the 70's-80's scenario, many would toss out their smog pumps or they would seize when the belt was removed (carbon deposits). Then when it came time to smog or sell their car they would have to either buy a new one or go scrounge the junk yards. Some scrap yards got wise to this and started charging a premium for pumps... because they could. So hold onto your old emmisions parts, otherwise you could end up paying big $$ when faced with making your bike compliant.

Sounds like something I posted maybe not on this board.

The only reason to remove the cansiter is because it is butt ugly. It may actually inprove gas milage by using the tank over flow, but not likely that you would notice a difference. It would be nice to have cat converters that were a universal fit to all after market pipes, good for the lungs. It would be nice if installing them in a custom pipe would improve the flow too.

Noise can hurt your ears, Supertrapp can be made to compromise, quiet at cruse and bark at excelleration.

Keep all your take off stuff.

[AmphibSailor]

Sounds like a plan!

Guess it would be N/A, if I went on to Stage II or III with a 95", headwork and TW37G, though.

I think I'll have to do some more homework in regards to the Texas state law and emissions when it goes that far.

[AFNurse]

Originally Posted by AmphibSailor

Sounds like a plan!

Guess it would be N/A, if I went on to Stage II or III with a 95", headwork and TW37G, though.

I think I'll have to do some more homework in regards to the Texas state law and emissions when it goes that far.

I have heard of stage 1 and stage II.....stage III?? what is THAT??!! NOS? or a rocket booster??!! maybe a high speed combo of both??!! I can see it now....a NOS powered rocket booster....THAT would turn some heads!!!

[AmphibSailor]

From what I understand, the Stage III is head porting/polishing.

Stage I - Improved Air Filter, Free Flowing Exhaust, carb reject or EFI download
Stage II - Cams, maybe 95" (jugs and pistons)
Stage III - Cylinder head porting/polishing

I could be wrong, though...