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May 18th, 2007, 06:14 PM
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#1 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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Anyone got any experience with 88 to 95 upgrades? I'll be using 211 cams.
Thanks | 
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May 19th, 2007, 07:34 AM
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#2 | | Has posted 500+
Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alvin TX
Posts: 1,482 Model: 03 E Glide X cop bike Interests: My family Old Dodge truck's Riding My Glide Occupation: Retired truck Driver
| captjack welcome to the site , I been watching this post as I'am going to do the same on my 03 E Glide , I was hoping someone had already chimed in , as I have not even checked out all the different cam set's yet  | |
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May 20th, 2007, 07:02 AM
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#3 | | Very Active Poster 50+
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sacramento Ca.
Posts: 59 Model: FXRS-FLTRI-FLHP Interests: Ride motercycles Occupation: Truck Driver
| Welcome to the site captin. If your going to go to a 95" you may want to think about a cam gear drive set and not get set on a 211 cam. I had 211 cams with a 95" in a E-glide. They wake up at about 3500 rpms but no bottom end. | |
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May 20th, 2007, 07:42 PM
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#4 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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Somebody please explain gear drive cams vs ? Ithought 211s were low to medium range torque. The first cams mentioned by the dealer were 255s.
A lot of money at stake here. Appreciate any help here. Rebuild starts Tuesday morning!! | |
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May 20th, 2007, 08:46 PM
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#5 | | Administrator Frequent Posting Club
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,214 Model: Harley FLHX Occupation: Web Developer by day, 25+ years of carb building by day, hey what happened to my day?!
| I did a 95" big bore build on my Heritage but used Andrews TW26 cams. The 211 cams are good middle range cams which should be fine on mid to lighter bikes. You didn't mention what type of Harley (or I missed that). Heavy bikes or those riden 2-up need cams that provide lower end torque. Cams that kick in higher in the RPM range are for lighter motorcycles who will not be bogging or needing low end power.
The difference between gear driven cams and chain drives (besides price) are varied. Chain driven is what is stock, and like the name it means the 2 cams are driven in synch by chains. The major disadvantage is the tensioning shoes meant to keep the chains tight wear out which leads to other problems. Gear driven cams have the chains removed in place of gears. Gears will keep the cams perfectly timed and are not subject to any maintenance like tensioner shoes. The drawback is noise, which is not so bad.
Keep in mind that if the Harley is an 06 Dyna or any 07 model the chain system was changed to a better system of hydraulic tensioners. In which case I'd stick with chain drive. Andrews is supposed to have out a conversion kit to turn your pre-07 chains into the newer version chains. | |
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May 21st, 2007, 12:43 AM
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#6 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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My bike is an '01 FXDWG2....hardly ever ride two up. so with this light set up and wanting g forces in low to middle torque range what cam do you suggest? On your recommendation I have decided to insist on geared cams.
And many thanks for your help in this tightening situation i am in,
captjack | |
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May 21st, 2007, 09:10 AM
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#7 | | More than 100 posts!
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 124 Model: '04 FXDL Interests: drag racing, muscle cars, street rods, annoying others
| If the heads are going to be stock, as well as compression ratio, then you want a cam profile that closes before 40 degrees after BDC so the cylinder pressure can build to the desired 170 to 180 lbs. For a stock base circle cam, not getting into high lift or high compression, the S&S 510 has a good profile. It falls off early which if keeping stock rev limiter is no problem, if bumping limiter then look at the Andrews 37. There is a newer cam with excellant exhaust and intake specs for under 9.5 to 1 compression that has not had a lot of press yet, the Crane 310 which is kind of a sleeper right now, but you will be hearing more about it soon. | |
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May 21st, 2007, 02:44 PM
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#8 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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Over the weekend I decided I am going to put out the extra bucks for new heads also. I think doing everything at once is the better way to go.....or so I'm hearing. Still thinking about the 211 cams. I want to go fast from 0 to 80 rather than 80 to 120. Any thougts?
Thanks for the input. | |
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May 23rd, 2007, 02:10 AM
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#9 | | 200+ posts and climbing
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mankato, MN
Posts: 381 Interests: Motorcycles, Mountain bikes, guns, Hunting, fishing
| The 211 cam does not come in gear drive, so you are contradicting your earlier statement that you will insist on gear drive....If you do decide to go with the 211 cam, you will want to run domed pistons or have your heads shaved to bump up the compression. Higher compression will help cure some of that soft bottom end.
Best to do your homework thoroughly before you start your build...There are several good combinations of parts that are proven to work well together. Pick one and run with it. You can have all of the best of the best parts out there; if they are not suited to work harmoniously together you will get very dissapointing results.
One of the best regarded builds I've seen was spec'd by an engine builder over on harley tech talk that goes by the user name "Hippo"...you will hence see his build often referred to as the hippo build. It is simply a 95" bore with cast flat top pistons using the cometic .03" multi layer steel head gasket with Screaming Eagle performance heads [not HTCC] and the S&S 570 gear drive cams. For best results get a good set of slipon exhausts or a 2 into 1 pipe. If you care at all about power, don't bother with noise making 'drag' pipes....they kill your power band on all but the wide open throttle passes...hence the name drag pipes. | |
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May 23rd, 2007, 12:18 PM
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#10 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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You're right, I did not have my facts right when I used 211 cams in the same sentence with gear driven cams. Just got back from the dealer discussing heads, cams, etc. He said he was ordering a gear set with similiar specs as the 211s. Staying below 10:1 compression for better around town riding. Do you agree?
Appreciate any input.
captjack | |
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May 23rd, 2007, 09:19 PM
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#11 | | 200+ posts and climbing
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mankato, MN
Posts: 381 Interests: Motorcycles, Mountain bikes, guns, Hunting, fishing
| Quote:
Originally Posted by captjack  You're right, I did not have my facts right when I used 211 cams in the same sentence with gear driven cams. Just got back from the dealer discussing heads, cams, etc. He said he was ordering a gear set with similiar specs as the 211s. Staying below 10:1 compression for better around town riding. Do you agree?
Appreciate any input.
captjack | The only problem I can see with that is that the 211 cam NEEDS more compression to run well....so if he's spec'ing a cam that is similar in characteristics, while at the same time, lowering your compression, you will have a VERY soft bottom end....meaning it won't really start to pull till you are in the mid 3's for rpm. You'll want to downshift for smooth passing with that setup; but if you like keeping the r's up, it will feel fine for ya. I personally ride right around 3K rpm a lot, so I ride much higher than the average hd rider who lugs em around 2K. | |
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May 24th, 2007, 01:33 AM
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#12 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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You can see by the time ain't getting much sleep. Thought we had it all figured out but the dealer guy was ordering parts. in partictular the gear driven cams. I was told what he ordered....S&S 510G. went home and did a little research and read multple posts from S&S and others that this cam works best with stock, unported heads.I have told them I want geared cams an SE heads.
I am getting very nervous and many bad vibes. I know diddly about motors and I am the one steering the build with not much input.
Got to figure out what cams to use quick!! Ordering a bb kit from the dealer shoud go easier than this.I ride an '01FXDWG2/ Ive ordered heads , jugs, pistons, gear driven cams plus other odds and ends....3-4k. I ought to ger 15-20 min of some's time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
captjack | |
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May 24th, 2007, 03:45 AM
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#13 | | 200+ posts and climbing
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mankato, MN
Posts: 381 Interests: Motorcycles, Mountain bikes, guns, Hunting, fishing
| Quote:
Originally Posted by captjack You can see by the time ain't getting much sleep. Thought we had it all figured out but the dealer guy was ordering parts. in partictular the gear driven cams. I was told what he ordered....S&S 510G. went home and did a little research and read multple posts from S&S and others that this cam works best with stock, unported heads.I have told them I want geared cams an SE heads.
I am getting very nervous and many bad vibes. I know diddly about motors and I am the one steering the build with not much input.
Got to figure out what cams to use quick!! Ordering a bb kit from the dealer shoud go easier than this.I ride an '01FXDWG2/ Ive ordered heads , jugs, pistons, gear driven cams plus other odds and ends....3-4k. I ought to ger 15-20 min of some's time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
captjack | YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER...DON'T LET THEM RUSH YOU!! Do your homework and tell them you want a 'second opinion' so to speak before you start laying out cash on parts set ups. Trust me, you don't want to waste needless money doing a job twice that you could have done cheaper and better the first time around.
I don't know who you're working with on this, but in general parts counter guys at harley dealerships don't know jack sh!t about building motors or what works together....Don't be taking their advice. Talk to the mechanics themselves...they often build up their own bikes and particularly the dyno operator...he's the one who gets to see what different parts combinations make.
Go over to Harley Tech Talk and ask some questions too...There is not a better collection of professional harley mechanics and drag racers anywhere on the web. Harley Tech Talk | |
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May 24th, 2007, 09:38 AM
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#14 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 14
| captjack-
Relax. I'm doing the same thing. I went with the S&S gear drive kit, 510G cams, SE lifters and pushrods. Not messing with the heads. From the research I've done, and the guys I've talked to, this is the way to go. | |
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May 24th, 2007, 09:41 AM
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#15 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 14
| captjack-
Sorry, skimmed your post. I see your concern. If your going with SE heads, then you should be able to go up to the S&S 570 cams. | |
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May 24th, 2007, 01:23 PM
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#16 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10
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Crisco, I called S&S and talked to their tech department. They said it is just fine to use the 510Gs with ported heads. It is a more conserative approach with slightyly less compression that will run well and be more dependable.
Dudes.....I don't know wheather to sh** or go blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
capijack: | |
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May 26th, 2007, 08:49 PM
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#17 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 14
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Just got my bike back from the shop. It's runnin' like a raped ape.  | |
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May 27th, 2007, 04:32 AM
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#18 | | Moderator Has posted 500+
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,123
| crisco, glad ya got it back and it is running good!!!!!!!!
ya know, i nicknamed my ol lady crisco......i was asked why, and i said it was better than callin her lard ass......................i get out of the hospital next week!!!!!!!!  | 
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May 27th, 2007, 06:00 AM
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#19 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 14
| Quote:
Originally Posted by chucktx ya know, i nicknamed my ol lady crisco......i was asked why, and i said it was better than callin her lard ass......................i get out of the hospital next week!!!!!!!! | | |
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May 31st, 2007, 10:28 AM
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#20 | | Rookie 10+ posts
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 14
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So, got my bike ('02 Softail EFI) back from the shop with the new cams, gear drive, etc. For the most part it's running great. But when I get the motor to optimal running temperature, it wanted to stall when I'd gear down and come to stop. I had to feather the throttle to keep it going. It's acting like its has a carb. Remember, this a fuel injected bike.
So, I took it back to the shop. They bumped up the idle speed by 50rpms, and set it a tad leaner. I did feel (or smell, actually) that it was running a little rich after the cam upgrade.
I took it for a short ride this morning and it still seems to feel the same way. Like it wants to stall with the clutch engaged when I'm coming to a stop. I'm thinking (or hoping) that it may be just me, and I'm not used to the cams. That the bike is and will run differently and I'll just have to adjust my riding style accordingly.
Any thoughts???? | |
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