[SK]

Originally Posted by Sleepy

I'm not sure I agree with the japanese vehicles being superior as a blanket statement.

Sleepy, not sure if this if from my statements, but I certainly never said that. I think one of the biggest problems with American car industry today is the UAW. I have nothing against unions personally, but they've driven up labor costs so high (productivity is low on the dollar) it's put a financial hurt on the big 3 as much as any sales has. You have guys with barely a HS education making bigger bucks than folks in highley educated fields (teachers and nurses for example).

[Sleepy]

Originally Posted by SK

Sleepy, not sure if this if from my statements, but I certainly never said that. I think one of the biggest problems with American car industry today is the UAW. I have nothing against unions personally, but they've driven up labor costs so high (productivity is low on the dollar) it's put a financial hurt on the big 3 as much as any sales has. You have guys with barely a HS education making bigger bucks than folks in highley educated fields (teachers and nurses for example).

Sorry SK, I was referring to the original poster's quality thought. The economy is kinda skewed here, trades people are in high demand with the resultant wages....senior nurses are going to be well over 40.00 per hour plus benefits in a couple of years..got 21 per cent over three years....you've picked a good field to get into.

[SK]

Originally Posted by Sleepy

Sorry SK, I was referring to the original poster's quality thought. The economy is kinda skewed here, trades people are in high demand with the resultant wages....senior nurses are going to be well over 40.00 per hour plus benefits in a couple of years..got 21 per cent over three years....you've picked a good field to get into.

$40/hr for a nurse? Canadian right? Though the exchange is about even now days..eh? Experience nurses back in Sacramento where I'm from are getting about that, but here in Las Vegas I'll be lucky to get $26-28/hr to start..though gotta start somewhere. I need to check out Glenwood Springs, CO and see what they're getting for new grads. Not sure I can hang another year here in the desert. 108º every day lately is a bit much to take..thank God for the pool!

[CD]

Sleep. SK...Dang, talk about a flashback to about '97!!!! Did you notice how close this is to the now infamous (well, to you, Marc and I) RK VS RS discussion on the MO board....Wow! Nothing ever changes does it. Did J-Sun move north EH?

[chucktx]

the "full circle" therory??????

[Sleepy]

Originally Posted by CD

Sleep. SK...Dang, talk about a flashback to about '97!!!! Did you notice how close this is to the now infamous (well, to you, Marc and I) RK VS RS discussion on the MO board....Wow! Nothing ever changes does it. Did J-Sun move north EH?

Nah, don't think so but notice how much better we are at handling this stuff now eh?

[CD]

Originally Posted by Sleepy

Nah, don't think so but notice how much better we are at handling this stuff now eh?

Oh man are we ever! Still, poking fun a J-sun was fun .

As a side note, there are several reasons why you will eventually see a water cooled HD line. No one has addressed the EPA and the year 2010. The standards are going to be tougher than ever and if HD wants to maintain a fleet average acceptable air cooled engine, they'll have to sell more models that are more EPA "friendly". Before I shut down, there were sightings of a water cooled XL up at the GM and Ford proving grounds in the Phoenix area. The V-Rod engine is a natural for both the XL and a touring power plant.

Also, like it or not an air cooled engine has more thermal stresses to contend with than a liquid cooled engine. You have better temperature stability, can produce more HP per cube and control cylinder expansion rates which reduces hot spots and warp-age which cause poor ring seal and increases wear. Anyone that owned, rode or worked on the '96 FL EFI bikes can testify to the fun rear cylinder warp-age was. The rear jug was so lean that it warped the rear cylinder quite often. On a water cooled engine you would have had detonation and maybe a burned exhaust valve but not melted jugs.

We all love our air cooled engines with the characteristic thump. The same design with water jackets that are well hidden might be your only choice in the not so far future. Yeah, I know they can pry my air cooled V-Twin from my dead.... But those of us that have kicked around for a while can remember the Evil EVO aluminum cylinder, ain't gonna buy one crowd. Hmm, seems more that a few of the faithful and a whooooolllleee bunch of newbies bought EVO's after all.

You can kick it around all you want to but the basic fact will remain the same. Given the same operating environments a 45° water cooled V-twin can produce more power and will have less wear than a 45° air cooled V-twin. It is why cars are not air cooled and exactly why small aircraft engine manufacturers continuously investigate new engine cooling options.

[hotroadking]

Leaky HD's bikes marking their spots, now we've gone from poor quality to leaky bikes LOL?

That stuff is left over stigma from over 20 years old, heck there is proof that the bike community just won't let a topic die, LOL might as well start talking about synthetic vs dyno oil too!

The Kawai will be a good dependable bike, will ride smooth, get good mileage and serve you well. Today's HDs do the same, however when it comes down to value per purchase, metric owners are best served by running the bikes till they drop, because as with a car, these bikes have a huge hidden cost, depreciation.

Case in point buddy wants a new Ultra, he has a like new 3 year old Yamaha Silverado, with the limited edition setup, leather bags, windshield, Mustang seat, air box and pipes. This was a $15,000 new bike, his potential trade in value? About $6K more than 50% loss a pretty significant hit.

None the less, it's a nice bike and he likes it.

[AFNurse]

Originally Posted by hotroadking

Leaky HD's bikes marking their spots, now we've gone from poor quality to leaky bikes LOL?

That stuff is left over stigma from over 20 years old, heck there is proof that the bike community just won't let a topic die, LOL might as well start talking about synthetic vs dyno oil too!

By the way...which one will make my bike run better? synthethic or dyno? If synthetic, which of the many brands is better??!!

[chucktx]