2007 HD Sportster 883C with Rinehart S/O Mufflers

sporty_kate · Sep 8th, 2007, 06:34 AM

hello you all !
I ride a 2007 Sportster, on which I got new mufflers installed. I chose Rinehart, because of the sound (which is indeed very dark and profound). These S/O Mufflers are made by BUB and are designed for the XL883C.

Nevertheless, I experience a problem with them. When pulling up in 1st gear (and I am not a racing pilot !), the engine "hesitates" for 1-2 seconds, which is particularly ennoying when passing crossings.

With "hesitates" I mean that when you turn the gas handle, the engine does not react immediatly... there is no power. (Sorry guys and girls, English is not my mothertongue, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say

)

Does anyone recognizes this problem or does anyone has some feedback for me ?

Thank a lot in advance !
Kate.

bdfin · Sep 8th, 2007, 07:29 PM

So I am assuming that with the stock exhaust you did not experience this problem? I'm not familiar with that exhaust but someone here will be. There is a fine line to walk sometimes when changing the incoming air, outgoing exhaust etc. on your HD. Changing the mufflers for the sound is not always followed by perfect performance. You may need to change your air intake or make other adjustments if you have FI, to accept the lower restriction ( I'm guessing ) exhaust.

wvak47 · Sep 9th, 2007, 03:59 AM

howdy Sporty_Kate,

All the specs I am finding says the 07 is EFI (fuel injected). Sorry haven't had to fight this beast yet. Wish I could help ya, I am sure someone around here will step up they were great to help me on my 05.

Lots of luck, and best wishes.

sporty_kate · Sep 9th, 2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdfin

You may need to change your air intake or make other adjustments if you have FI, to accept the lower restriction ( I'm guessing ) exhaust.

I don't know for sure what you mean with "FI" ... Is it Fuel Injection ?

Concerning your assumption, I can say that you're right : they're as good as completely open, where the stock exhausts aren't. And then you have to add the fact that the stock exhausts used for europe are still different than the stock exhausts for the USA : they're even more "baffled" (? hope this is the right word

)

kate.

wvak47 · Sep 9th, 2007, 04:21 AM

FI = fuel injected.

What I have found happens through researching this silly 05 of mine is this. When you add after market pipes with fewer or NO baffles (right word) then you reduce the backpressure of the exhaust on the motor. This in effect leans out your fuel air mix (more air than fuel in the mix now) which is very bad for your pistons. In my case with the carburetor I have to increase the size of the jets to increase fuel in that mix. (So you know not having much luck with that fight either). I have NO clue how to go about fixing this on a EFI (electronic fuel injected) motor, but my guess is it has something to do with the re-MAP threads around here http://bike-talk.com/forum/efi-maps-tuners/. I truly hope someone can give you solid advice soon. I know how frustrating this situation can be.

Best wishes

sporty_kate · Sep 9th, 2007, 04:33 AM

thanks wvak47 !

I'm afraid that you just confirmed my fear... that I will have to have the bike remapped. It's quite expensive here. It costs about 750 euro (or +/- 1050 usd) to get it done

On the other hand, I wonder if opening up the airfilter more, wouldn't help ...

My problem is that I depend on the knowledge of others, because I ride my bike only for 2 months, and although I do know something about engines, this EFSI-system is like chinese to me...

kate

wvak47 · Sep 9th, 2007, 04:50 AM

Well Kate if I am correct then opening up your air filter won't help if anything it will make it worse as it will allow even more air into the mix which is possibly the problem now. However, if you want to do this in the future and it is that expensive to have mapped in your area, you might want to go ahead and get the highflo air filters now and only have it mapped once.

Anything you do to your system that changes the air flow will effect your air/gas mixture and lead to some kind of a condition. If you do anything that allows the air to flow more easily then you lean out your mix, if you do anything to restrict the air (can't think of a thing anyone does to restrict air flow on purpose ,other than governments

) then you make the mix rich or gas heavy. Of the two conditions Rich is best as Lean = a lot of extra heat.

bdfin · Sep 9th, 2007, 01:41 PM

Do they make other baffles for your exhaust ? It may not ruin the sound and give you back some back pressure that you lost when you changed the exhaust. More than likely if the stock exhausts are as restrictive as you say a remap may be needed once you are set on what exhaust configuration you are sticking with. Someone else may still have some other ideas.

AFNurse · Sep 9th, 2007, 02:05 PM

So, standard concept... true stage one is to open both the air filter (free flow filter like the screaming ealge or ness filter). Reduce the pressure in the exhaust by free flowing pipes (different pipes offer different levels of restriction.). There are a few methods of re-mapping your bike. As the Sportie version having EFI (electronic Fuel Injection) is more new, there may be fewer options, but here are some of the more "common" fixes..... Screaming Eagle Race Tuner (SERT)...runs 500+ here in the USA plus cost of setting it up and mapping it, I am sure Europe will cost a bit more, plus the exchange rate. Next option is the Power Commander (PCIIIusb). This is a "plug and play unit that allows you to down load a new MAP into it, thereby adjusting air/fuel mix. This can also be further tuned if you have a shop that has a dyno tuner and is familiar with Power Commander. There are also DFO (digital Fuel optimizer) that is a fixed map that is loaded onto the bike. There are now also new systems such as the Zipper by Thundermax that tune your bike on the fly...they run 600+ and should probably be installed by someone that knows what they are doing but after that, no more shop tunes...... There may be more methods out there, but these are the most common. There WILL be cost with all of them. THe POWER COMMANDER is probably the easiest and cheapest and anyone that can read should be able to program it and install it on the bike with little trouble (tho later, may want to have a custom map done which will cost you more.).

Hope this helps and enjoy the ride!
Nurse

sporty_kate · Sep 10th, 2007, 02:55 AM

thanks bdfin, thanks afnurse,

there are a few hd-dealers in my neighbourhood, I'll have to see what they can propose. I do have the impression very few people know exactly how to manage these new EFSI-engines !

I was so happy when I just got these mufflers, but now frustration is getting the overhand... BUB (the manufacturer) said clearly there were no modifications needed on the bike; just install and ride...

I'll keep you all informed !

Kind Regards,
kate.

skull2007 · Sep 10th, 2007, 04:53 AM

open it up. sounds like they really resrict them over there. instead of the re-mapping. think about going with a powercommander and re-map yourself at home. i'd certainly be thinking hard on getting rid of the air cleaner. so in short, what i'm saying is to totally open that bike up and give it a new life starting with a powercommander. have fun

your english is just fine

sporty_kate · Sep 10th, 2007, 12:39 PM

Hi guys,

I just received an answer from BUB ... this is what they say now :

quote:
"Hello Kate, If you are using a canned download, that is your reason. You need a tuner to dial in your fuel injection. Dynojet, SERT, etc. Call for details. Also a different air cleaner at this time is advisable. PS Do not operate bike without this or serious damage can happen"

What in heavens name is a "canned download" ? And what is your opinion to this ? Can Dynojet and SERT be compared to the PowerCommander ? Oh boy, this is getting wurse and wurse ....

hugs,
kate.

mwelych · Sep 10th, 2007, 02:15 PM

Kate... Just so you know I am no expert on this situation, since I am a carbuerated '96 FLSTC. However, a canned download may be your basic H-D dealer download that costs a lot of moola. Go and get a free flowing air cleaner, although I was told by my independent that it already has one.
Must mention that your icon (dude that pulling out his hair) looks like me on a bad day with the kids I teach. Best of luck to ya and keep us informed.

Tomflhrci98 · Sep 10th, 2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporty_kate

Hi guys,

I just received an answer from BUB ... this is what they say now :

quote:
"Hello Kate, If you are using a canned download, that is your reason. You need a tuner to dial in your fuel injection. Dynojet, SERT, etc. Call for details. Also a different air cleaner at this time is advisable. PS Do not operate bike without this or serious damage can happen"

What in heavens name is a "canned download" ? And what is your opinion to this ? Can Dynojet and SERT be compared to the PowerCommander ? Oh boy, this is getting wurse and wurse ....

hugs,
kate.

I would seriously take their advice about the "serious damage can happen" and put your stock exhaust back on untill you can figure this out. And when I say figure this out... I mean figure out how much more $$ you want to put into this. Start by talking to HD, Then go find yourself an independant motorcycle service shop. Don't stop there because they both will try to sell you on what they think is best. Come back to us and tell us what they both say is the best solution.

skull2007 · Sep 10th, 2007, 06:19 PM

when they say "canned" what that implies is that that map is set up for any number of bikes with a very similar set up. the opposite (best way)would be a map which has been set up to match your bikes set up and your riding style/habits.

sporty_kate · Sep 11th, 2007, 04:03 AM

I spoke to AFNurse yesterday, and I've got some extra advise from BUB... I am going to put on there original exhaust again, because I simply don't want ro ruin a brandnew bike !

I'll keep you all informed how things evolve.

Thanks for all the nice reactions !!!

Hugs,
Kate.

oh, mwelych ... by the way ... although I have a job as CFO, I am in fact a chemical engineer ... so we already have two things in common !

skull2007 · Sep 11th, 2007, 04:20 AM

your're off to a good start

you just have to finish. go ahead and get a high flow filter. then something to adjust your air/fuel. i'm a big fan of the power commander. i know how you feel about EFI. at first it seems overwhelming, but trust me; it gets simple and down right fun. if you're concerned about money "stay away from the stealership"

with their expensive downloads. those downloads are something you can do at home on your computer. the best investment you can make at this point would be a powercommander, fuel pack, ect. i doubt you will ever regret it. if your're wondering what the difference is between what they do at the shop with their down loads and what you can do at home let me know i can explain it. i'm no expert, but i would be happy to share with you what i've learned.

AFNurse · Sep 11th, 2007, 07:24 AM

I just hope that the advice that I gave was good!! I think that you will be happy with the final outcome, even if it is delayed a bit.

kenfuzed · Sep 11th, 2007, 10:31 AM

All of the suggestions to add on a Power Commander is exactly what I would recommend as well. There are ways around your exchange rate there, simply by finding a seller here in the US that will ship to you. Even if you have to pay customs it will still be cheaper. I sell quite a few carb kits (sorry, don't do EFI) to places in Europe and Australia for that very reason.

If you need help tracking down a reseller who will ship to you let me know.

ringo912 · Sep 11th, 2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenfuzed

All of the suggestions to add on a Power Commander is exactly what I would recommend as well. There are ways around your exchange rate there, simply by finding a seller here in the US that will ship to you. Even if you have to pay customs it will still be cheaper. I sell quite a few carb kits (sorry, don't do EFI) to places in Europe and Australia for that very reason.

If you need help tracking down a reseller who will ship to you let me know.

Ken...congratulatins and welcome back. I need some advice with my bike. I have an 02 Heritage Classic with a stock TC88B and carb. I have the SE breather and V&H true duals. The stock jets are 45 pilot and 190 main. I removed the 12" power chamber baffles that came with the pipes and installed the BCT baffles. The bike was to loud with the BCT's so I reinstalled the V&H baffles and then put the BCT baflles in behind them, (towards the back end of the mufflers.

My concern is this: Went on a 1000 mile trip with a few friends. Every time we stopped to gas up, I was putting anywhere from 3/4 to 1 gallon less than everyone else. Now there was some weight difference with the other bikes. There was one EG sport with a stroked EVO, so I didn't include this in the equation. The other two bikes were an EG Classice and A RK Police bike. Both of these had tour packs in additon to the saddle bags.

Just want to make sure I'm not running lean. I found this article from JP Motors that went into great detail about using the plug chop method to read a rich or lean condition. The article outoines the four steps to tune the carb at all levels. 1. Idle, 2. Off idle to light ecceleration, 3. Wide open throttle, and 4. mid-range or cruising speed. Article said to tune the idle circuit first, off idle next, wide open throttle, controlled by the main jet and then tune the cruising circuit with the main needle.

I followed all the info in the article including the info on this site related to tuning and jetting a carb. Got the bike up to operating temp and adjusted the idle mixture. The article then said to put in a new set of plugs and ride the bike for a couple of miles at various speeds without going beyond half throttle, pull in the clutch and kill the engine. Remove the pulgs and check the color of the insulator. It said not to be cncerned with the base or the ground tip of the plug.

According to the article the ideal color of the insulator should be off white to light Navajo. If they were tan to brown, the bike is running rich. White and the bike is running lean. After my two mile ride I pulled the plugs and the insulator was still white. So I changed the pilot jet to the next size up, #48. Repeated the test again. Getting some black on the base of the plug but don't really notice any change in the insulator.

AM i missing something? Any advice would be appreciated. Want make sure I don't burn a valve or piston.