[gutierg]

I own a 2005 Dyna Low Rider with approximately 6200 miles on it. I wanted to see if someone could comment on the following issue that has become more apparent as of late.

Approximately a year ago, I had the muffle plates removed from my stock pipes, followed by a Stage 1 upgrade kit and a remap of the EFI. This was all done at an authorized HD dealer in Sellersville, PA.

I would mostly take two to three hour runs, but just last week, I decided to visit the York, PA Vehicle operations plant and go for a tour with some friends. This meant that we would ride about 160 miles to our destination from NJ. Bike ran relatively well, until I started to notice that I was in need of gas. The bike was also running pretty hot, even though we were cruising on the highway.

When I was refuleling, one of my friends decided to get down and look at my pipes, they were coated with soot or carbon type material, which meant that my bike was running too rich. We seemed to agree on the fact that the gas mileage for this bike was pretty low and the fact that it was really hot (temperature wise) comapred to the two Road Kings that were with me. I have contacted the dealer, who has told me that there may be a problem with the plugs? I don't think that the EFI mapping has gone away, so I am trying to find out more information, before I have the bike dyno tested/tuned.

I will appreciate your comments.

Regards,
German

[chucktx]

welcome to the forum!!
you are running rich. i would not suspect the plugs. i would suspect the air filter being dirty, or blocked somehow. i have seen small birds in them. you can also change the plugs as they are inexspensive. they should probably be changed due to being fuel fouled, but not because they caused your problem. the map should not have changed, but i suspect stranger things have happened. check the air intake system for some type of blockage. have fun and keep us informed!!!

[Tomflhrci98]

First thing, like chuck said, check air cleaner.

Then check the plugs. Do they both look fouled or just one. Could be a bad injector they can stick on. This doesn't happen often and is way out in left field, but it could happen.

Could be a bad throttle position reading. This may not trip a engine light unless it is out of range for the reading. It may be telling the processor that you are opening the throttle more than you really are. Have HD check this.

Could be a bad coil , but you would probably feel this and is usually all or nothin.

Could be a bad fuel regulator that would allow full pressure from the pump. Have HD look at this too.

Did you put diesel in it ? OK now I'm stretching. I can never stay focussed.

[gutierg]

Originally Posted by Tomflhrci98

First thing, like chuck said, check air cleaner.

Then check the plugs. Do they both look fouled or just one. Could be a bad injector they can stick on. This doesn't happen often and is way out in left field, but it could happen.

Could be a bad throttle position reading. This may not trip a engine light unless it is out of range for the reading. It may be telling the processor that you are opening the throttle more than you really are. Have HD check this.

Could be a bad coil , but you would probably feel this and is usually all or nothin.

Could be a bad fuel regulator that would allow full pressure from the pump. Have HD look at this too.

Did you put diesel in it ? OK now I'm stretching. I can never stay focussed.

Tom,

Thanks for the great commentary, I will do all the checking that you are referring to, and I'll have my dealer check the most difficult itmes on the list.
Actually they suggested that I perform a Dyno test, what do you think of that?

I was just trying to figure it out here, another words see what comments I get and from there, take the bike to the dealership and solve the problem. I did not want to ride in blindfolded and have them tell me, why my bill was so high afterwards.

Regarding Diesel.... I always try to stick with 91 Octane, so as to keep my injectors clean.

Thanks again.

Regards,
German

[Tomflhrci98]

G,
All you can do is check the simple things like the air cleaner and plugs. Check the gap on the plugs, make sure they are not broken. stuff like that.

While you have the air cleaner off check for loose throttle parts. You have the return mechanism on the right side and the throttle position sensor on the left. make sure the sensor bolts are tight.

Unfortunately after that you do have to take it to the dealer, but they should put it on the scanner and look for the simple things first before they go to the extreme of loading it on the dyno. That's my 2 cents on the dyno thing.

[voodoochild]

Sorry G, I just saw this and got your PM. These guys are all on the ball and they have you headed in the right direction. It has to be something restricting the amount of air into the motor in order for it to run rich like that, especially out of the blue. I'm not so sure of the clogged fuel injector as I think that would cause a decrease in fuel delivery but I may be wrong about that, remember my bike is carbed, and I am certainly NOT an EFI guy. (of course after I re-read Tom's post of the injector getting stuck ON that makes sense) Check those obvious things and if all else fails take it to the dealer. I know that sucks to do but sometimes it has to be done. Wait, are you under warranty?? If not, call Rob @ USA cycles. I'll PM the number so as not to get into a spam issue or anything. Good luck, Chris

[gutierg]

[QUOTE=Tomflhrci98;25951]First thing, like chuck said, check air cleaner.

Then check the plugs. Do they both look fouled or just one. Could be a bad injector they can stick on. This doesn't happen often and is way out in left field, but it could happen.

Could be a bad throttle position reading. This may not trip a engine light unless it is out of range for the reading. It may be telling the processor that you are opening the throttle more than you really are. Have HD check this.

Could be a bad coil , but you would probably feel this and is usually all or nothin.

Could be a bad fuel regulator that would allow full pressure from the pump. Have HD look at this too.

Tom,

I pulled both plugs out last night and they are completely fouled/dirty. This fouled dirty condition is a wet condition as opposed to dry fouled dirty. I will replaced them as soon as possible, but I don't think that will resolve the issue, there is something else to be eliminated yet.

Regards,

German

[ringo912]

Hey German...are the fouled plugs wet from fuel or oil?

[Red Rider]

As to a Dyno run, I'm a big fan of 'em. But a run before resolving the main issue seems premature - Dyno runs are more useful when fine tuning for best performance, IMO. Not that they aren't great to troubleshoot with, but they usually aren't needed for that...and they cost money. So I say Dyno it once you're pretty sure you have it fixed, unless they're gonna pick up the cost for you....and figure the odds of that!

[Tomflhrci98]

[QUOTE=gutierg;25969 This fouled dirty condition is a wet condition as opposed to dry fouled dirty.
German[/QUOTE]

G,

This sounds pretty bad. I would check my oil now and see if it smells of fuel. I would try not to run it too much like this at all! If you are over fueling it that bad you will wear out your rings fast. Infact if your oil smells like it has gas in it I would trailer that bike over to HD and have them hook up the scanner and check the throttle position sensor and other stuff.

Seriously! wet plugs with a fuel inject doesn't make any sense. I think you are seeing something that is really out of wack here.

[chucktx]

what tom said....wet plugs with efi is a very bad thing.....

[gutierg]

Originally Posted by Tomflhrci98

G,

This sounds pretty bad. I would check my oil now and see if it smells of fuel. I would try not to run it too much like this at all! If you are over fueling it that bad you will wear out your rings fast. Infact if your oil smells like it has gas in it I would trailer that bike over to HD and have them hook up the scanner and check the throttle position sensor and other stuff.

Seriously! wet plugs with a fuel inject doesn't make any sense. I think you are seeing something that is really out of wack here.

Thanks to voodochild, I was able to hook up with USA Cycle here in NJ. The bike will be going through a check up, just to see if we can pinpoint the cause of the poor gas mileage.

As an update, I have replaced the original plugs with a pair of screaming eagle EX12S. The bike immediately felt faster and ran smoother. I am not saying, that I am out of the woods yet, but that's why it is at USA Cycle, for diagnosis.

As an aside, after diggin' some more with the dealer that did the upgrade of my stage 1 kit, I was told that if the mechanic does not feel that he has to do an EFI remap, he just does not do it. Isn't that great? My EFI was "never remapped"

The plot continues....

We shall see.

Regards,
German

[hotroadking]

Well if it wasn't remapped I would take take it back and make them map it or give you the money back for the mapping. Provided they charged you.

If they didn't then consider a Powercommander or Vance and Hines fuel pack to allow you to control the fuel.

Maybe you have a dirty/stuck injector. If you are getting wet plugs then it's probably in the fuel delivery system, a good cleaning with Chevron fuel injector cleaner may help.

[voodoochild]

German and I went on the Rolling Thunder run this past Sunday. The bike seemed to run fine, although we lost each other later on in the run so we didn't get to talk about how it was in the end. Did you ever get a chance to pull the plugs after the run? I realize the bike is at USA now, but I wonder what they looked like after that run. Any update on that German?

[gutierg]

Originally Posted by voodoochild

German and I went on the Rolling Thunder run this past Sunday. The bike seemed to run fine, although we lost each other later on in the run so we didn't get to talk about how it was in the end. Did you ever get a chance to pull the plugs after the run? I realize the bike is at USA now, but I wonder what they looked like after that run. Any update on that German?

voodchild,

Yes I did remove the plugs after the ride and in comparison, the plugs had already begun to build up a small amount of carbon deposits.

I rode the bike to the shop and left it there with Rob, he will be looking into it today and will let me know later, what he has found. He will concentrate on the throttle body or perhaps the fuel injector itself.

As I indicated before, I was very puzzled as to why Dean's Harley Davidson in Sellersville, PA did not remap the EFI? That in itself may be the root of all the problem. If Rob has to install power commander, so be it, so long as that is the only issue.

I will inform later as to the final outcome on this.

German

[gutierg]

[QUOTE=gutierg;26316]voodchild,

Yes I did remove the plugs after the ride and in comparison, the plugs had already begun to build up a small amount of carbon deposits.

I rode the bike to the shop and left it there with Rob, he will be looking into it today and will let me know later, what he has found. He will concentrate on the throttle body or perhaps the fuel injector itself.

As I indicated before, I was very puzzled as to why Dean's Harley Davidson in Sellersville, PA did not remap the EFI? That in itself may be the root of all the problem. If Rob has to install power commander, so be it, so long as that is the only issue.

First and most of all, if you all could bring your bikes to a shop as honest as this, you'd be amazed! I would highly recommend USA Cycle Inc, Middlesesx NJ to anyone that wants to have their bike repaired, withouth being told a bunch of lines by the dealerships. I doubt if I ever go back to the dealership for service again!

Thanks voodochild, your help was outstanding here!

The bike was checked all over by USA Cycle and the findings are as follows:
1) No oil bypass, no seal leakage of any nature
2) Fuel Injector body was closely inspected, and some debris was found but not in great quantities, but cleaned out.
3) EFI was in fact done by the dealer in PA, they apologize for that and USA Cycle confirms that it was done!
4) Bike has been leaned just a tad more, and mileage as well as plugs getting dirty should go away.
5) Plugs were checked after Rolling Thunder, very little to no deposits were found.
6) Lets see what the mileage is going to be in the next few months!!!

Regards,
German

[chucktx]

i hope they got ya fixed up........good luck and keep us informed!!

[gutierg]

Originally Posted by chucktx

i hope they got ya fixed up........good luck and keep us informed!!

chucktx,

The bike feels a whole lot better, I can't comment on the mileage yet, perhaps with luck, I'll get out this w/e and report later. I rode approximately 30 miles, "taking the long way" home and it felt pretty good.

Thanks again to all of you for your comments, every single one of them had some validity!

Regards,
German

[voodoochild]

Glad to hear she's back up and running German, and also glad that Rob got ya fixed up. He's an awful nice guy. (did you get to see any of the customs he's building back there??!) Get some ridin in and let us know how it's going.