[ringo912]

The instruction pamphlet that came with the Andrews cams states that runout of the pinion shaft cannot exceed .003 TIR. Pinion shaft runout must be checked with the cam plate bolted in position.

To check pinion shaft runout, you have to retract the tensioner shoe away from the chain and secure it in the retracted position with a retention pin. Or you can do what I did and pick up a nail off of your garage floor and use it. It works great to hold the tensioner shoe in place and you eliminate any chance of the nail ending up in your tire. You can see it in the pic I posted that shows the wear on the shoes.

Next you remove the pinion shaft and cam shaft bolts and pry both gears and chain as a unit off of the shafts. Remove both spark plugs and put the tranny in 5th gear. Now with a dial indicator on the pinion shaft rotate the rear wheel so the engine turns over. If your engine is rubber mounted you have to secure the dial indicator to the motor so it doesn't move when you turn over the engine. On the softails with hard mounted engines you can secure it to the engine or the frame. If runout exceeds .003 TIR, Andrews does not recommend installing gear driven cams without having the flywheels retrued to bring the runout into spec.

[ringo912]

Cool Ringo, that is definitely on my to do list now! Maybe you could rent those tools like Ken suggested a while back. That would help pay for them anyway....Just a thought.[/quote]

Hey Voodoo...great minds think alike. I was kinda thinking about the rental thing myself. So let me know when your ready to tear it down, and we'll work something out.

[voodoochild]

Thanks Ringo, I appreciate it. I am hoping that I don't have to worry about runout, the motor only has 7500 miles on it, but I am guessing that the amount of mileage doesn't matter especially with my luck! Thanks again for the pics/info as it was very useful.

[duke76]

Ringo, just out of curiosity what did your crank have for runout? What has everybody elses runout been? Is there any ryme or reason to why some have more runout, Is there certain years that are more prone to runout?

[ringo912]

Originally Posted by duke76

Ringo, just out of curiosity what did your crank have for runout? What has everybody elses runout been? Is there any ryme or reason to why some have more runout, Is there certain years that are more prone to runout?

I had 0.0015" runout. Not sure if or how much variance they may be from year to year. I do know that in 02' HD increased the size of the crank pin and bearings. I would think that variation would be limited to HD's spec for crank runout. I'm sure others with experience in this area will chime in.

Hope this helps.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ringo912

Hope I'm not breaking the forum rules with this info, but I got a great deal on the gear drive. Bought it through American Classic Motors on Ebay for $564.00. The kit comes with everything and you have your choice of any Andrews cam you want. The kit comes with cams, all gears and installation kit. The installation kit includes cam plate bearings, Thorington inner cam bearings, keys, bolts, and cam cover gasket. If ya go direct to S&S or through JP it runs about $760.00. So on Ebay go to: Ebay motors, motorcycle parts, and type in S&S Andrews.

I have 27K on the bike. Checked the shoes at 18K and only had about 0.01 wear on the outer, and 0.02 on the inner shoe. Checked them at the beginning of this season, 23K, and determined they would have to be changed by 30K. Outer shoe worn about 0.04 and inner about 0.06, 0.09 is the max allowable wear. Gong to start taken it apart on Monday. I'll post my findings.

As of yesterday, American Classic Motors had $20 off of that price on the same kit- cheaper than I can buy as a dealer from VTwin.

[duke76]

well, with all this talk of crank runout, I tore into mine last night to check the tensioners as I have 25000 miles, They looked surprisingly well other than a few pits, so as long as I had it out I checked the runout, well just my luck I had .005 so I guess gear drive is out for me, I havent decided if I should just leave it or switch it to the new style.(andrews roller chain conversion)

[voodoochild]

Heres a question.....what do you do if you want gear drive cams and your runout is more than what's allowed??? What then, because I just know that when I go to do mine, I WILL have that problem, I just know it!

[duke76]

You are forced to either buy a new crank or have your old one straightened, If I change mine it will be to the Andrews roller chain, I talked to one of there techs and he strongly recommended the conversion over the gear drives, in my case, even though he would be selling less parts, He said they havent seen any failures like the old spring loaded tensioners and got rid of the bearings to bushings like, cars, trucks, he also said it is very fast to change cams.

[ringo912]

Originally Posted by duke76

well, with all this talk of crank runout, I tore into mine last night to check the tensioners as I have 25000 miles, They looked surprisingly well other than a few pits, so as long as I had it out I checked the runout, well just my luck I had .005 so I guess gear drive is out for me, I havent decided if I should just leave it or switch it to the new style.(andrews roller chain conversion)

This might be a dumb question, but I notice in your post you said: So as long as I had it out I checked the runout Did you check pinion shaft runout with the cam plate out of the bike? To properly check pinion shaft runout, you must have the cam plate mounted and torqued to spec.

Now keep in mind that changing over to the new desing roller chain and hydraulic tensioners can be more costly than gear drive. Starting wiht 06' Dyna's, HD redesign the cam plate and oil pump. The new cam plate no longer has bearings in it and the oil pump is larger. All 07's and later models have this new design. HD does not make a kit to retro fit the old design cam plate. So when you make the change the kit you get from Andrews is basically the cams, sprockets and inner cam bearings. To complete the change you have to buy a new design cam plate and oil pump.

Because of the cost some people opt to stay with the old design and do a maintenance check of the shoes every 20-30K. I know a guy that owns a Heritage with 110K on it and has changed the shoes three times. A new set of shoes costs $75.00 plus gaskets and o-rings. So it's really comes down to economics and personal choice.

If you go online to Hot Bike magazine there is a really good article about the change over to the new roller chain design. I tried to put the link here, but as Chucktx will tell ya, I'm not the best at attachments . So go to hotbikeweb.com in the search bar type in cam chain conversion scroll down to the article titled: Andrews Harley Davidson Cam Conversion Kit

Hope this helps, keep us posted.

[chucktx]

Andrew's Products Harley Davidson Cam Conversion Kit - Hot Bike Magazine

[ringo912]

Chuck...if I ever grow up, I want to be just like like you You are the attachment guru

[duke76]

I checked it with the cam plate installed, I havent taken the cams out yet because I am not even sure I am going to do it, I would like to put different cams in it but would like to know for sure that this new design is better, I dont want to spend the money to convert it if it isnt going to last any longer than the stock spring tensioners, I would sure like to hear from someone with 20000 miles on the new style and have taken a look at the tensioners.

[ringo912]

Here ya go HAMSHOG...SCROOL DOWN TO THE POST FROM CHUCKTX AND CLICK ON THE ANDREWS LINK. IT SHOWS HOW TO DO THE CONVERSION.

HOPE THIS HELPS.

[ringo912]

Originally Posted by chucktx

Andrew's Products Harley Davidson Cam Conversion Kit - Hot Bike Magazine

Hey Lucifer....unfortunately there is no kit available to retro fit just the tensioner shoes. The cam shafts, cam plate, and oil pump were all redsigned for the new setup. Here is a link that explains the conversion to the new style hydraulic tensioners. I changed mine over to gear driven cams about 4000 miles ago. When I compared the costs, it was less expensive to convert to gear driven cams.

[skull2007]

one of these days i'd like to do the same, go to gears. as i understand it the 06's and newer where put together with excessive crank end-play which often exceeds .060. is there some way to correct this like shims or something? or am i stuck with that sloppy chain

[duke76]

I did the conversion and I really like it, it is very quiet. My bike had to much runout for gears. If you have to much runout your only option is to keep the stock setup , go with the new set up , or tear your motor apart and have the crank trued and welded, like I said, i opted to go to the new hyd tensioner with larger oil pump and couldnt be happier. Todd