[00 wildglide]

I'm thinking about Andrews 31HG gear-drive cams(.510 lift/236-int./240-exh.).
My question is:the gear drive set-up looks to be around $800.00 or so & I'm wondering if this is really worth it.I did have all this on my Dyna & it ran great!.I guess my real question is;do I want to spend the money all over again.
I noticed the same cams are also in chain drive form(31H) from Andrews for less money due to not needing the gear set.
Let me know your thoughts on this...Thanks!,00 wildglide

[chucktx]

from what i understand...the new chain drive systems are supposed to be better made and dont tear up like the pre 07's. if ya lookin for more power, that is the way to go...vybr8ter may chime in here.....the resident dealer tech....knows the new stuff pretty good

[00 wildglide]

Hey chuck,
Thanks...I just need a good reason to "con"-vince the wife of the scooters future needs.I don't mind putting all the goods in;but Dam!,these parts are starting to add up.I have purchase new install tools too.
Talk to you latter,00 wildglide.

[ringo912]

Hey 00 Wideglide...not trying to advertise here but you can buy the S&S Andrews gear set brand new in the box on Ebay for $459.00. This includes the installation kit and you can choose any cam you want.

[duke76]

The new style tensioners are supposedly way better than the spring loaded ones, I hope so anyway because I am in the process of converting my 05 to the new roller chain style. I was going to put gear drives in but my runout was to much. Before you go and order the gear drive you better check your crank runout, The new bikes seem to have a lot more runout than the older ones and the moco changed there spec to like.010-.012 so Ive heard and Andrews said you dont want more than .002 or you will have noise. Also you mention buying tools, the new style does not have bearings in the outer cam plate, journals, ride on aluminum in the housing, and you need no tensioner unloaders because they are hydraulic, so the only tool you might possibly need is inner cam bearing remover, for that I bought a blind hole bearing puller from Harbor Freight for 30 bucks and it worked fine, so tool cost is nill, with the new style, changing cams is very easy. here is the link to the puller set I used

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

If you decide to reuse the old inner cam bearings you would not even need this tool, but I would recommend it, the rollers on my inner bearings were blue and there were heat score lines on the cam, not that you could feel but noticeable, I put in Torringtons b 148, they do not have the little cage between the rollers, just roller against roller,

[ringo912]

Originally Posted by duke76

The new style tensioners are supposedly way better than the spring loaded ones, I hope so anyway because I am in the process of converting my 05 to the new roller chain style. I was going to put gear drives in but my runout was to much. Before you go and order the gear drive you better check your crank runout, The new bikes seem to have a lot more runout than the older ones and the moco changed there spec to like.010-.012 so Ive heard and Andrews said you dont want more than .002 or you will have noise. Also you mention buying tools, the new style does not have bearings in the outer cam plate, journals, ride on aluminum in the housing, and you need no tensioner unloaders because they are hydraulic, so the only tool you might possibly need is inner cam bearing remover, for that I bought a blind hole bearing puller from Harbor Freight for 30 bucks and it worked fine, so tool cost is nill, with the new style, changing cams is very easy. here is the link to the puller set I used

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

If you decide to reuse the old inner cam bearings you would not even need this tool, but I would recommend it, the rollers on my inner bearings were blue and there were heat score lines on the cam, not that you could feel but noticeable, I put in Torringtons b 148, they do not have the little cage between the rollers, just roller against roller,

When installed correctly the inner cam bearings are set 0.025 below the face of the inner crank housing. What tool did you use to install the new bearings?

[00 wildglide]

Ringo,
I purchased all of the install tools from "JIMS" when I did the work on my '00 DYNA.Thanks for the info.
QUES.:If the new spec. for crank run-out is between .010"-to-.012" & usage of a "gear drive" set-up causes noise,is this the only draw back?
Is there going to be premature gear teeth wear?
If noise is the only issue,I installed enough radio to take care of that.
What ebay site was selling the combo for that price?(do not answer if this is out of protocol)
Thanks to all for your help!00 wildglide

[duke76]

Originally Posted by ringo912

When installed correctly the inner cam bearings are set 0.025 below the face of the inner crank housing. What tool did you use to install the new bearings?

You can use either a aluminum race and seal driver (found at any auto parts store) or a socket the coreect size and an extension (just be sure to pound it in on the flat side of the roller bearings)(the side that the number is on )You can either eyeball the depth( what I did) or measure with a caliper.

[duke76]

Originally Posted by 00 wildglide

Ringo,
I purchased all of the install tools from "JIMS" when I did the work on my '00 DYNA.Thanks for the info.
QUES.:If the new spec. for crank run-out is between .010"-to-.012" & usage of a "gear drive" set-up causes noise,is this the only draw back?
Is there going to be premature gear teeth wear?
If noise is the only issue,I installed enough radio to take care of that.
What ebay site was selling the combo for that price?(do not answer if this is out of protocol)
Thanks to all for your help!00 wildglide

American classic motors

If your crank runout is above .003 definetly do not install gear drives THat is why so many newer bikes cannot use gear drive The moco spec is higher that max allowable gear drive spec
\
No, the other drawback is if your runout is to much besides making noise it will bust the teeth off of the gears and you will have them floating around in your engine

[ringo912]

What Duke says....and excessive runout can cause the gears to over heat and in some cases cause the engine to seize. Wouldn't want that to happen when your bustin down the e-way at 80. If you go to the post titled "Assembly lube" from November 30th, there is 3 pages of discussion on this subject, along with some pic's I posted when I did the change over to gear cams.

Hope this helps

[00 wildglide]

TO ALL,
THANK-YOU FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE & HELP!!!
00 wildglide

[duke76]

I knew I seen a picture of what happens when you install gear drives in a bike with to much runout so I did a little looking around and came up with this, see post 42

Harley Tech Talk

[VYBR8ER]

Yes, he MOCO changed their spec so when your crank scissors and your bars start vibrating they don't have to replace the motor under warrenty. It really sucks. There is another option other than the gear drive, Woods Performance makes a belt drive for the front side of the camplate. It's a bit pricey but gets rid of the front chain and tensioner.

[00 wildglide]

Duke,
Thanks for the picture...I think my minds made up about which type of drive system to use.I really like the concept of the "gear-drive" set up,but the risk of gears crashing,teeth braking,metallic oil soup flowing...ect. makes me think the chain set up will be fine.
I will be using Andrews 31H cams(.510-lift/236 int./240exh.) with "Jims" lifters & Screamin Eagle "perfect-fit" pushrods.I want to keep this bike on the mild side for engine mods.
00 wildglide

[cardboard]

Like Chucktx said, on the 07 and above the chain drive is all you need.
I was talkin to Bobby at Woods performance about some TW6-6 Woods cams.
I was asking him about gear drive cams. He stated it would be a waste of money to go gear drive on a newer bike. He couldn't understand why I would want to even think of gear drive. And he said if you do deceide to before you do anything to check end play on the pinion shaft for runout. If the runout is too much which has been a bigger problem on newer bikes. Do not do it, or it will be a short life deal. Seems like the crankshafts are not as true as they used to be.
Unless its a race application stay with chain drive.

[HAMSHOG]

Just talked to my mechanic about replacing the '05 tensioners with the new style, and he said it couldn't be done? Have a little over 40,000 on the bike and will be checked at next service. Which way would be best to go without changing cams?

[duke76]

Well, if It cant be done im in trouble cause thats what I got, If you need any info or if he needs any info let me know.

[HAMSHOG]

Originally Posted by duke76

Well, if It cant be done im in trouble cause thats what I got, If you need any info or if he needs any info let me know.

Well, he obviously doesn't know, or is trying to get me to buy the gears. Is it a fairly easy fix? I'm under extended warranty also. Do you know if this something the H/D dealer will install? Appreciate any info. I don't do my own wrenching.

[hotroadking]

Only issue I could see is the inner cam bearing is a 1 inch bearing on the 07 and up and the 06 and earlier has a smaller diameter bearing, so unless the 07 inner cam bearing fits into the 06 and earlier cases I don't see how you could do it without machine work on the case to fit the larger inner bearing.

The other stuff is simple bolt on

cam plate
tensioners,
new gears
new chains
not sure about oil pump you probably have to replace it but I'd check for sure
and cams

[ringo912]

Originally Posted by HAMSHOG

Just talked to my mechanic about replacing the '05 tensioners with the new style, and he said it couldn't be done? Have a little over 40,000 on the bike and will be checked at next service. Which way would be best to go without changing cams?

Hamshog...you can convert an 05' to the new style roller chain drive. However you will have to purchase new cams, even if they are a stock grind. This is because the stock cams prior to the 06' Dyna and all 07's run in bearings. The front cam has a ball bearing pressed on the shaft and the rear is slip fit into a roller bearing. You can buy a conversion kit from Andrews but you will also have to buy a new style cam plate and oil pump from HD. The new cam plates do not have beraings in them for the cam shafts and the new oil pumps are larger and won't bolt to the old style cam plates.

I put a new comment in an old post just to bring it to the top of the list. The post is titled "Assembly Lube". Go to the post and scroll down to the first response you come to by Chucktx and click on the Andrews link. They show the conversion in detail. Hope this helps.