[BONECOLLECTOR]

I'm new to cruisers and Harleys. I was previously a sport bike rider. In January of this year I purchased for the first time a brand new 2007 VRSCAW (V-Rod). Two days after my purchase I visited my local Harley Davidson (HD) to get ideas for customizationt. I spoke to an HD salesman, who owned and road a V-Rod, to get advise on a louder pipe. He recommended V-mod. Then he very strongly encouraged me to have my bike Dyno'd instead of using a power commander. I knew nothing about a Dyno before meeting him; however, his deep sincerety caused me to do it. The Dyno cost me $850, not including the pipe which was extra. After having my bike for a month I realized that I was stopping for gas twice a much as my fellow Harley riders. I was averaging abou 27 mpg. I went on the internet to several Vrod and Harley chat rooms and asked why. I found that the Dyno cut my gas mileage nearly in half. I WAS LIVID AND STILL AM! This result was never mentioned to me by the salesman. Had I known that my gas mileage would worsen by 50%, especially with gas prices as high as they are, I would have never gotten the bike Dyno'd. Now it doesn't benefit me to ride my bike to work instead of my car. Can someone tell me if there is a way to reverse this Dyno mapping and reset my bike, what are the cons. . .and how much would it cost?

[Dakota]

You've kind of lost me. A Dynometer is a machine that measures an engine's power output-that's all it does. What else did they do to your bike? Did they change the ECM mapping with a power commander or some other device? If they didn't change anything in the ECM-with a PC or a download then the bike should still run near normal.
A little more info would be helpful

[duke76]

The dyno did not cut your fuel mileage the tune with the dyno did, sounds like they had to richen it up for your new pipes and possibly adjust your timing in 1 or more areas, Sounds like you may have to take it to someone else to have it redynoed and retuned, I can see maybe losing 5 mpgs but if you are truely losing 20 plus mpgs the guy that tuned your bike didnt do worth a damn. I am not familiar with a v rod as it is liquid cooled but I think that it would be fairly compatible as the other harleys for tuning wise and you may have to take it to someone else or take it back put your stock pipes back on and set it back to factory, Todd

[Art_NJr]

H-D dealerships know about as much about tuning Harleys as I do about the dark side of the moon. Find a good independent shop by asking other area riders where they go, as many of the best shops don't advertise - 'cause they don't need to.

The dyno is just a tool & the operator has to know what he's doing, or the results & tuning changes made based on them are worthless. One indy shop I've gone to caters primarily to the "crotch rocket" guys, but has no problem putting a Harley on the dyno. $25/hour last I was over there, the operator does know what he's doing & will let you run the bike yourself if you know enough about how the dyno works & what changes you want to try.

I'm sure there are some good H-D dealers out there & 3 have been helpful to me, but for dyno tuning & other such things I don't have the equipment to do myself, I ALWAYS go to an indy shop who specializes in such things. Bet you've got a good one in your area & just don't know where it is yet. All the ones I know of I found out about by word-of-mouth & don't have flashy ads.

[skull2007]

sounds familar. the olde half-assed steeler download, which sounds way off. but than theres the question of why they didn't pick this up on the dyno sounds to me like they don't know what they're doing. seems they did a fine job of over charging you. you should be and ready to go back and of at least be buddy..... they did you wrong, maybe call rape crisis first

[freerider8]

First let me say that you were ripped off badly, I know that you already know that but having the bike dyno'd should not have mad your fuel mileage change that drastically. you need to find a indy shop that specializes in this sort of thing cuz most dealers just want to add on parts and charge an arm and leg to do that as you found out. you should be able to take it to one of these shops and they can put the bike on the dyno to check to see what your running at and tell where to go from there. I had my bike dyno'd and it only cost me 200.00 and the shop checked the bike first to see what needed doen first so I didnt spend money I really didnt need to. turns out my bike was running lean and needed a power commander and a dyno so now she runs perfect, best money I ever spent on it. But anytime you change the pipes or air intake system you have to do changes to the bike, but depending on what you actually did to your bike if you put the stock exhaust back on and remove any aftermarket computer parts....such as a power commander the bike will go back to stock. hope this helps

[skull2007]

you already have too much money setting with the steeler. tell em to make it right or give your money back. i would'nt just walk away at this point

[SPORSTERBOY]

I would do the same, take it back and tell them wtf, and make it right. For that kinda money, you could have just bought a used geo or something

[Art_NJr]

Shame on me for not noticing location Maryland in your post, BONECOLLECTOR. Run over to Zippers Performance on Amberton Dr., west of the airport, right off Washington Blvd. (U.S. 1), just before you get to Hwy. 100. Here's a link to MapQuest that shows you where Zippers is: Map of Elkridge, MD by MapQuest

I've not been there in person, but nearly all of my Land-Speed-Record engine came from Zippers & I spent hours on the phone with the owner & chief engineer, going over details. I seriously doubt you'll find anyone in Maryland who knows more about Harleys (including your V-Rod) & dyno tuning. Top quality business I highly recommend.

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

Shame on me for not noticing location Maryland in your post, BONECOLLECTOR. Run over to Zippers Performance on Amberton Dr., west of the airport, right off Washington Blvd. (U.S. 1), just before you get to Hwy. 100. Here's a link to MapQuest that shows you where Zippers is: Map of Elkridge, MD by MapQuest

I've not been there in person, but nearly all of my Land-Speed-Record engine came from Zippers & I spent hours on the phone with the owner & chief engineer, going over details. I seriously doubt you'll find anyone in Maryland who knows more about Harleys (including your V-Rod) & dyno tuning. Top quality business I highly recommend.

Art, you're allowed one oversight You could also broaden your range from Maryland about Zippers too. Hell you don't even have to be from the US to know Zippers is one of the best in the world for Harley Performance.
I've been to the dark side until I've seen the light...and the dark side of the moon...it's always dark

[Lucifer]

BONECOLLECTOR..I'd go back to that Stealership one last time to demand a refund .. They ripped you bad and know about as much about Dyno tuning as I do... SFA.

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by Lucifer

Art, you're allowed one oversight You could also broaden your range from Maryland about Zippers too. Hell you don't even have to be from the US to know Zippers is one of the best in the world for Harley Performance.
I've been to the dark side until I've seen the light...and the dark side of the moon...it's always dark

I still don't know anything about the dark side of the moon, but I can certainly recommend Zippers. Using their billet heads, "Red Shift" cams & other goodies, the "Crimster" ran the homebuilt bike pictured below a tick over 169 mph @ Bonneville & set 2 records the way you see it. And with a few more modifications, ran 180.025 mph as pictured in my photo album here. No I won't tell all the details & 1 reason is I want to "whup up" on Carl's Speed Shop - again. The #4007 bike has been retired from racing, but #506 now has my engine in it & we hope to get that one back to the track - it "only" ran 167 mph in the previous configuration.

[hotroadking]

Art is that you by the bike,

I though you'd be older LOL

First thing I'd do is take it back to the dealer, $800 for a dyno tune only is pretty high. On an EFI bike it does take longer if you are going to set cells in a Race Tuner or Powercommander.

I'd check the invoice , did they sell you a Race Tuner for the VeeRod, heck I don't even know if it works on the veerod or a Powercommander?

Other than that they have no way to tune the bike, the stock ECM can't be changed except by having the race tuner installed or, by a power addon like the PC.

They should make it right.

The problem isn't just that it's a dealer, its' got to be a poor dyno operator, doesn't matter if you're independent or dealer, it's the operator.

I know of several independent tuners that are not worth your money.

Check on the veerod boards for good tuners.

You need to find out what was done.

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by hotroadking

Art is that you by the bike,

I though you'd be older LOL

Yep, I'm the hansdome gentleman on the left And I just turned 55, so there is more white/gray in the beard now - still handsome though The pilot Crim is a youngster But he can ride a "naked" Sportster to over 180 mph. I haven't been that fast & know I'm not a good enough rider to try - I'm just the engineer guy.

First thing I'd do is take it back to the dealer, $800 for a dyno tune only is pretty high.

It's insane. That's 32 hours @ a shop in this area. And the owner set the track record over @ Maxton @ a tick over 250 mph on a turbocharged Suzuki Hyabusa.

I'd check the invoice , did they sell you a Race Tuner for the VeeRod, heck I don't even know if it works on the veerod or a Powercommander?

Other than that they have no way to tune the bike, the stock ECM can't be changed except by having the race tuner installed or, by a power addon like the PC.

They should make it right.

The problem isn't just that it's a dealer, its' got to be a poor dyno operator, doesn't matter if you're independent or dealer, it's the operator.

I know of several independent tuners that are not worth your money.

Check on the veerod boards for good tuners.

You need to find out what was done.

Absolutely. Get the $$$ back from the dealer if possible & since you're in Maryland, run over to Zippers. Not the least expensive shop you'll find, but they don't rip people off & are not known for making mistakes either.

- Art

[BONECOLLECTOR]

I'm sorry this stuff is new to me. The bike was apparently dyno'd, mapped and tuned. This was said to be done to calibrate the new pipe, the K&N air filter (which they recommended) and the fuel.

Bones

Originally Posted by Dakota

You've kind of lost me. A Dynometer is a machine that measures an engine's power output-that's all it does. What else did they do to your bike? Did they change the ECM mapping with a power commander or some other device? If they didn't change anything in the ECM-with a PC or a download then the bike should still run near normal.
A little more info would be helpful

[BONECOLLECTOR]

Ok folks, after reading your responses, other threads and the internet I'm beginning to learn this stuff at warp speed. I looked at my invoice and this was the breakdown: $73 K&N air filter, $460 EFI Race Tuner Kit, $170 Custom dyno w/chart = $703 before tax. Note: all this was strongly suggested by the dealer when all I wanted was a pipe with some sound. I was not at all interested in racing my bike but it looks as if they sold me on a race kit and the tuning. The V-rod stock had enough power for me. I gave up riding a sport bike because I was not interested in racing and wanted to cruise and travel long distances comfortably on a customized Harley. Based on your responses, I did not need all of this and still I paid too much. Sorry for not providing enough info in my initial blog, but as I said I was/am new to this. If anyone is interested in seeing my dyno/tune chart I'll be glad to share it. Still I think I got a bad deal because I'm certain that the tuning is the primary cause for my extreme drop in gas mileage. I will definitely take it to Zippers in Elkridge for their professional opinion. Thanks guys for your valuable input. I'll let you know what Zippers recommended I do.

[skull2007]

in veiw of this involice i'd say you did o.k, not too bad. pitty they don't know how to run a dyno. what you need to do is learn how to adjust that racetuner; did they give you the software for it? it can be tuned by you, it's more complicated/different than a PC111 but can be done. i'd still take it back and have them re-do the job to your satisfaction. the a/c thing sounds like all they did was replace the element. maybe v-rods don't need to have the back plates replaced. thinkin they did you allright.

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by BONECOLLECTOR

Ok folks, after reading your responses, other threads and the internet I'm beginning to learn this stuff at warp speed. I looked at my invoice and this was the breakdown: $73 K&N air filter, $460 EFI Race Tuner Kit, $170 Custom dyno w/chart = $703 before tax. Note: all this was strongly suggested by the dealer when all I wanted was a pipe with some sound. I was not at all interested in racing my bike but it looks as if they sold me on a race kit and the tuning. The V-rod stock had enough power for me. I gave up riding a sport bike because I was not interested in racing and wanted to cruise and travel long distances comfortably on a customized Harley. Based on your responses, I did not need all of this and still I paid too much. Sorry for not providing enough info in my initial blog, but as I said I was/am new to this. If anyone is interested in seeing my dyno/tune chart I'll be glad to share it. Still I think I got a bad deal because I'm certain that the tuning is the primary cause for my extreme drop in gas mileage. I will definitely take it to Zippers in Elkridge for their professional opinion. Thanks guys for your valuable input. I'll let you know what Zippers recommended I do.

$170.00 is not a bad price for a Dyno tune, but not worth a sheit if they don't know how to Dyno tune. So, are you saying you went for a pipe and they sold you all the other stuff and installed it without asking if you wanted it??No option for a PCIII?? A half decent place would offer some recomendations for upgrades but not sell, install and charge without the "OK" from the owner. Sound like a STEALERship to me.
I don't know jacksheit about EFI, but from what I've read on this site the PCIII is more user friendly than the kit they "sold" you.
If I were you I'd do what Zippers recommends, then take the other stuff back and tell em to shove it where the sun don't shine(dark side of the moon is one) where you want them to put it is another.

[skull2007]

buy your bike from olde steeler than and don't look back or go back, til you learn your way around. never trust the steeler or you get

[hotroadking]

$170 isn't bad
The KN price isn't bad
and the price for the Race Tuner software is retail and high, you can get it for less online but that's the way it goes

IN the future buy your HD parts from Jenny at (Fairfield ohio dealer) www.tricountyharleydavidson.com 20% off every day no tax and no I dont work or live near there.

Not every dealer is a stealer and not every Indy is straight up honest.

The race tuner is more robust and can produce great results in the hands of an effective tuner, like Mike Rowland (Kuryakyn) It's also more work to tune.

However many users at dealers only plug n play stock maps make a few runs and shoot for the best numbers based on the runs using the map as it's supplied

Many are concerned with EPA fines for tampering, Dealers are a huge target especially in California

I would take it back and have them retune at no cost to you because the bikes obviously too rich (BTW many tuners err on the rich side on a street bike because way to lean and you fubar a motor) Way to rich and you fubar gas and plugs.

Chalk it up to a learning experience, dynos are tools and like guns, wrenches and a hammer, are only as good as the hand that hold them.

Talk around on the net find a good vrod board and see what folks are doing, you might find some good tuners through referalls ,end up with more power and good mileage.

There is an efi section on MSN's harley tech talk, join the site and talk about your Race Tuner.

The product that you were sold isn't a bad product, even though many like the powercommander due to the wider selection of people out there that know them and the less time it takes to tune one.

Shows that with a little work and the right tools you can get close.