[mojeda]

I installed a temperature sensing oil dip stick on my 02 fatboy, does any one have an idea what a normal temperature range should be? what is too hot?

[skull2007]

mine runs around 200-220 with regular driving, can go to nearly 300 when you get stuck in traffic

[mojeda]

i am seeing the same, and started to wonder how much was too much.

[chucktx]

you want atleast 220......that will burn off the water from condensation and other impurities.................

[hotroadking]

Take it back
put in stock one

All it will do is drive you nuts wondering if your temps are ok, it's a $100 mind screwer JMO

Seriously, the temps given are fine, run synthetic (oh no I said the S word)
and it should run a bit cooler.

[ironhorse]

synthetic, synthetic did some one say synthetic

[chucktx]

all monitoring gauges are just that, monitoring. all readings are relitave. lets say the oil pressure is running 30psi hot, day in, day out, one day it is lower or higher.....that is when you look for a problem. actually you could put a mark on the gauge and use that for an indicator. what i get may be different from what you get. but when it changes, that is when ya start looking..............

[hotroadking]

I usually wait until parts start breaking to look for my problems, funny sometimes that's more often than I'd like

[AZroaddust]

Originally Posted by chucktx

you want atleast 220......that will burn off the water from condensation and other impurities.................

220 deg. F in the oil tank? Temperature in the engine, around the valves, etc. will certainly be much higher than that and enough to flash off any H2O. NO??

What is the soft seal material made of if any? Usually over 200+ deg F. Viton is recommended. Just curious, not trying to be a wiseguy

[chucktx]

actually, you are correct.....i take my readings from the return to the oilpan.....240 has been my highest reading, west texas,2up, pulling a trailer.....but, no matter what it says, it is still relative.......when it changes, that is when you can suspect a problem.......and i am not sure what "softseal" you are refering to...........

[Panthera]

I am with ChuckTX on this strongly. The dipstick thermometers are most likely not all calibrated to be the most accurate, but a change suddenly would indicate problems. I would also advice to keep track of fuel economy, if it suddenly changes for no apparent reasons, it may be pointing to an issue that needs addressing. I do this with all my vehicles, and I try to get my young-uns to do it too, but do they listen to dad?

If your mileage suddenly increases, it may indicate a carb/injector problem and that your bike is running lean, which if left too long can result in burned valves, blown head gaskets, all kinds of trouble. A stitch in time saves nine.

Just monitor your bike, and watch for changes. Happy riding!

[skull2007]

back in the day with cars vacume gauges where a big thing for both tuning and driving. i never hear anything anymore about them i always belived in them. do people ever use them on bikes? just wondering what happened to them and they have any use with bikes

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by mojeda

I installed a temperature sensing oil dip stick on my 02 fatboy, does any one have an idea what a normal temperature range should be? what is too hot?

[COLOR="Navy"]The analog oil-temp dipsticks are usually right on (I've got 2) but I've heard the digital ones are not accurate @ all. Simple way to find out - stick one into a pot of boiling water & see if it reads 212* (mine read 210). What's too hot? If the oil temp runs much over 200 degrees for any length of time in any engine of mine, I'm going to stop & find out why. People tolerate much higher temps than that but I won't 'cause it kills engines & the "additive package" in engine oils too.

The commonly accepted norm is 180-210 degrees & here's one article about that: ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Oil Temperature and Engine Life Although that article deals with Porsche engines & 15W50 is the heaviest oil tested, you can see the viscosity breakdown with heat & for example, at 250 degrees, a 15W50 oil has the viscosity of a 5W20 @ 190*.

Oil does not need to be hot enough to "boil" water or other contaminants & a Harley engine really only needs to be above 150 degrees to run without the "enrichener" (choke). My Sportster engines typically run 160-180 oil temp & they will get to 200 on an extended highway run, but not above that & I do not have an oil-cooler on them. With one exception, the highest oil-temp I've seen was 205* & that was stuck in downtown traffic after a 115-mile run down the interstate, on a day where it was over 100 degrees outside. The exception was a test with 15W50 Mobil I - oil temp hit 250 & I drained that stuff right back out. Put SAE 50 in & the temps were back to 160-180.

Someone will say the NASCAR guys run 250* oil temp & while that's true, those cars hold 5 *gallons* of oil, the engines are hand built to MUCH closer tolerances than H-D engines, are rebuilt after every race & internal parts are coated to deal with the heat. I know that 'cause I live in the heart of NASCAR county & I have some engine parts coated @ the same shop: ceramic coatings, teflon coatings, thermal coatings solutions with Calico Coatings

A friend of mine is selling the best oil-cooler you can get as fast as he can make 'em 'cause the new EFI bikes run hot all the time, due to being set lean from the factory. Some of the baggers he's worked on have hit 300 degrees oil temp & the riders have been told that's OK by dealers & oil salesmen. No it's not OK & neither is 250, or even 225. Bikes with the cooler installed & running oil temps in the 175* range not only run a lot better, they last a lot longer too.

Take engines apart, measure & the results really show up. I've seen cylinders go out-of-round & develop wierd wear patterns in 6 months because the engine oil was running too hot - even on stock bikes run "by the book". On the flip-side of the coin we ran my 100" Land-Speed-Record engine for a year on Red Line SAE 50 (no multi-grade for me) 5500-7200 rpm for 1-4 miles @ a time & I did nothing to it other than change carb jetting for the conditions, check spark plugs & change oil/filter. Pulled the top end off in December & my piston-to-wall clearance was *exactly* the same as it was when the engine went together & there was no measurable wear on any internal part.

Synthetic oils do handle heat better than conventional oils, but don't buy the sales pitch that they can run 250-300* & still be fine - no they can't. Oil doesn't "wear out" but the additives sure do & heat will kill 'em quicker than anything. And the parts inside your engine are made of different materials which expand & contract by different amounts and @ different rates - i.e., the pistons & rings are completely different. Next time I run over to the shop I'll try to remember to take some pictures of some cylinders run on hot thin oil - they're .004" out-of-round & it'd take a .020" overbore to clean 'em up. Looks like a drunk took a rat-tail file to 'em, but the (Mobil I) oil just got wiped right off the cylinder walls & the rings & piston skirts gouged the cylinder walls.

Given the choice of believing a sales pitch & believing a micrometer, I'll take the micrometer every time. Simply put, if your oil temps exceed 210, find out why & fix it. Depending on where you live that might mean adding an oil cooler, but it just may be that the engine's running too lean & just needs to be tuned properly. If you keep running it hot it's gonna cost you in the long run. [/COLOR]

[dayrider]

Hi Art....great post on oil temperature.....what brand and weight is your favorite for the everyday rider....have a great weekend, Army

[AZroaddust]

Originally Posted by chucktx

actually, you are correct.....i take my readings from the return to the oilpan.....240 has been my highest reading, west texas,2up, pulling a trailer.....but, no matter what it says, it is still relative.......when it changes, that is when you can suspect a problem.......and i am not sure what "softseal" you are refering to...........

Thanks for the clarification. What I refer to as "soft seals" are O rings etc. made of Buna N, Nitrile, Viton, EPR, etc. Guess there actually aren't any on or within the engine that would see any great heat, so it's sorta a dumb question.

Thanks again!

[chucktx]

art....the oil recomendations............are they taken in the oil bag??? or from the engine? i think this should be stated. temps in the engine are going to be higher than in the bag. my temps are taken right from the engine, not the bag......bag temps will/should be lower...............

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by chucktx

art....the oil recomendations............are they taken in the oil bag??? or from the engine? i think this should be stated. temps in the engine are going to be higher than in the bag. my temps are taken right from the engine, not the bag......bag temps will/should be lower...............

[COLOR="Navy"]At the oil bag, Chuck. The oil in the engine is certainly going to be hotter, depending on where it is (really hot in the rocker boxes), but since most of it is in the tank @ any given time, that average tells me what I want to know & the oil-temp dipsticks I have are accurate.

When the oil bag temp exceeds 210* (200 for me) that means the oil is not able to pick up heat from one place & transfer it elsewhere properly. "Air cooled" is really a misnomer - it would be better to say "oil-cooled" for a Harley - or a lawnmower for that matter.[/COLOR]

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by dayrider

Hi Art....great post on oil temperature.....what brand and weight is your favorite for the everyday rider....have a great weekend, Army

[COLOR="Navy"]I have 2 favorites, Army - good ol-fashioned Valvoline Racing Oil, SAE 50 most of the time, 60 weight in hotter weather & Red Line synthetic, same weights, although I even have a gallon of 70. The synthetic is so expensive that it's very hard to justify the cost, especially since you can get Valvoline for much less by the case @ Sam's Club or Wal-Mart & it does a fine job - been using it since 1969. But the Red Line has really impressed me & it's the only brand I'll use in the race engine.

Now here's an interesting tidbit I recently learned - there are now 2 types of Valvoline straight-weight racing oil & one is "not street legal" (black jug) but that's what you want for a bike engine. That oil was never meant for normal passenger cars & the anti-wear additives in it will clog up a catalytic converter, so Valvoline has come out with a modified formulation that won't. But those additives (removed from the street legal version) are just exactly what a Harley engine wants & the "not street legal" formulation is what they've been making since before there was such a thing as a catalytic converter.

Automotive oils are NOT formulated for Harley engines - yes you can get away with a quality 20W50, but you'll never see the day I use an automotive oil in a Harley - or a multi-grade. And here's another interesting tidbit - I spoke @ length with a chemical engineer @ Mobil & she said their 15W50 is not recommended for Harleys & that one of the guys in that Dept. had an Electra Glide which ran only Valvoline Racing Oil SAE 50 - same stuff I mentioned & have used since '69.[/COLOR]

[chucktx]

one more oil question for ya art.....you are recomending straight weight oil...valvolene 50 or the black jug 50wt or 60wt in twin cams???? or just sportsters???? thanks

[Panthera]

A lot of good information Art. That is what makes this forum great, a place to share knowledge. I have a couple of questions?

I have an 05 sporty (which I see you do too) but I live in a cooler part of the country. I love to ride, and often will take the first ride in spring when there is still snow in the ditches, but the roads are clear. I also ride late into the fall, often times after everyone else has put their hog into hibernation. In summer my temps in the bag are right around 195, while during the cool rides it can be stable at as low as 160-165. Would the straight 50 weight be too heavy for those temperatures?

Also, I get an occasional false neutral since I switched to HD syn oil. I found some info on the web suggesting Amsoil would take care of it, or help. I have not been home in a few months to try it, though. Do you have any issues like that with the heavier grades? Would you recommend the same change schedule with the heavier grades?

Thanks for the great information.