[softail07]

Hey everybody, I'm glad to be a part of BikeTalk. I found this website and have really enjoyed reading the articles and tech tips, very informative and I'm learning alot! I have a '07 FXST and my friend has a '07 FXDL. Both are stock and we're both really ready for an upgrade. I plan on getting exhausts, K&N filter and a fuel management system, but I'm a bit confused. V & H sells the FuelPack, Hooker sells their version and then there's the PCIII. Which is better? Also, which do you think would be better for my bike: Hooker Troublemakers, Hooker Forbidden 4 into 1, or V&H Big Radius 2 into 2? The Troublemakers and the Big Radius look very similar, and what do you think about the 4 into 1? In the article, it says to stick to 1 3/4 header openings for stock harley engines, but the Forbidden's headers are 1 3/8 leading to one 3 in. I just want to get the best set up for the money and gain power, not loose it. The website said that the Troublemakers gave an extra 18Hp and 5.5ft-lb torque to a '01 Fatboy.
Thanks

[hotroadking]

Welcome
so the power bug has bit,
one of the key things to have in mind is that your bike has a low rpm high tq motor, that means, unless you spend a boatload of cash, getting high HP numbers isn't really the goal, it's high TQ numbers where you ride, 2400 to 5500 RPM mostly between 2800 and 3400.

Also I've bought every doohicky and pipe, and I have them all bolted on my Heritage, based on the advertisements I now have 63,756 HP

Point is, ad claims are pretty much worthless, you never know who's put what on with which pipe and did they tune it, are the pipes now on with a stage 1 air filter being compared to a stock pipe with stock tune and stock filter.

Having said all that and answered none of your questions.
Of the ones you listed I'd go Powercommander, and go for the V(5) if it will work with your bike, it's the newer model.

The advantage of the Powercommanders over the others is you can load a map, change it, or dyno tune it for perfect accuracy, including ignition timing, set areas for better fuel mileage and/or power. Further you add some cams and headwork next (you will it's part of the power virus you get with the first bug bite) all you have to do is tune the Powercommmander. The others simply add fuel they do no timing or you cannot reduce fuel in specific areas.

There is another option from TTS Mastertune, it's the company that made the old SERT (Screaming Eagle Race Tuner) which is a great program as it lets you tune the actual ECM on the bike, new maps, timing everything. JMO it's a great tool it has the ability to add 02 sensors and self tune the bike as well. A great tool.

Pipes are subjective, any are better than stock, usually, A 2-1 like the thunderheader or Supertrapp 2-1, ProPipe, all will outperform the ones you're looking at, usually true dual type pipes kill the bottom end off and then run hard up top, but unless you drag race or spend all the time over 5000 RPM what's the point (other than looks and sound) In fact a good set of Khrome Werks or Cycle Shack slip ons will probably beat those pipes on a dyno. It's up to you, looks over power, power over looks,

As for the Hooker I know one guy running one on his hot 95 inch softail, we haven't see the dyno but it is friggin loud, ie, neighbors hate you, cops look at you loud...

So theres some more stuff for you to consider...

[softail07]

Hotroadking, I've definitely been bitten by the power bug and it's expensive to treat! Thanks for the great advice. I was leaning toward the PC, but just needed to hear from someone with more experience. I'll definitely check out the TTS Mastertune and the pipes you suggested. There is alot to consider so I'm sure not going to rush into anything. Thanks again!

[mwelych]

JUst got through visiting a few friends that own a shop in Gastonia, NC. My one bud and possibly the best wrench there, swears by the PCIII. I have a carbuerated m-sickle, so there is no need for me to own one. But a bro of mine owns a 98 bagger with fuel injection, and he is getting a PCIII and our bud is gonna install and adjust for him. THe cool thing is all the different maps for all the different possibilities of exhaust and intakes available. It sold me, and I don't need one... Best of luck wit ya...

[hotroadking]

JMO get all your ducks in a row first
buy what will allow you to make changes (you will)

Basically you're doing a stage 1

The Powercommander 3 you want is the PC3USB EX

Here is a link to the Powercommander 5 for info purposes.

While you're at it, pop in a Bobby Woods 6-6 cam and advance it 4 degrees...

Your buddy will wonder why your pipes and air filter are so much better than his, its' a bolt in cam and easy to install.

[voodoo1]

aahhh the slippery slope has started. have fun "upgrading"
you will like the difference from a stage one upgrade.

later
Voo1

[softail07]

mwelych, hotroadking and voodoo1,
Thanks for the advice and links. I was also checking out the Thundermax automatic tuner, but it's so expensive. I'm going to get the PC3 instead.

[duke76]

Originally Posted by softail07

mwelych, hotroadking and voodoo1,
Thanks for the advice and links. I was also checking out the Thundermax automatic tuner, but it's so expensive. I'm going to get the PC3 instead.

You would love the tmax, I do, I cant believe what a difference it made, Todd

[hotroadking]

Do this, go PC5, I think it will work with your bike.

Then, get the base map for the build and then pay the $300 to get it dyno tuned.

The bike will run better, when you compare the Tmax to the PC5 with Auto Tune to the
PC3/5 with a dyno tune, you will be within $100.

Just plugging and playing isn't the key, that's why we've all suggested better tuners than the VH fuel pack which is very limited.

A good tune will get decent mileage and make very good power, keeping the engine and your butt cooler...

Now If you get a good base map and pop on the auto tune option for the PC5 or tmax later, when you add a cam, heads, etc it's got a good map to start from and retune the bike for you....

Like I said put on the parts that can grow with you, the PC3 is good, the PC5 is better...

[softail07]

Originally Posted by duke76

You would love the tmax, I do, I cant believe what a difference it made, Todd

Todd, is the tmax software compatible with a Mac computer?

[duke76]

That is something I cannot answer, I would call Zippers tech support and ask them, here is a link to get a hold of them

Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) and Performance Parts for Harley Davidson and VTwin Motorcycles

[bear]

Originally Posted by softail07

Todd, is the tmax software compatible with a Mac computer?

Just dyno'd mtcy 02 heritage after doing head work, Andrews 510g gear drive cams. 3 7/8" TC pistons + .005", smooth bored oem carb with 190 jet and a 48 jet. Crane HI 4 ignition module with python slash cut pipes and a big sucker air cleaner kit.
happy with the results. max HP 92.19 with 99.43 max turque


sent parts to be machined and did all work in the back garage.

[VYBR8ER]

There is a fuel controller that not many people are using yet, Terry Products Terminal Velocity 3. It is a closed loop systen that utilizes the O2 sensors to analyze the exhauast gases and keep the A/F mixture in range at all times. The nice thing is you will never have to go back to the dyno when you make changes to the engine. It is also CARB certified so it has the CA smog cert. Installed a few of these lately on bikes that had been modified past the run of the mill downloads and they worked very well. Didn't dyno the bikes to see what the top numbers were, but who rides WFO all of the time?

[cowboy]

vyber8er do you have a link for terry products ? & are they just for the newer bikes ie 08-09?

[chucktx]

here ya go.........

Terry Components

[hotroadking]

FWIU the Terry is fuel adding only, no timing, so it's not a full on tuner like Powercommander, etc....

[kenfuzed]

Just my 2 cents... there have been many complaints on this forum and other forums about the earlier Terminal Velocity products from TC. Personally if you want a complete tuning solution that utilizes the closed loop O2 sensors I would go with the ThunderMax w/autotune.

[cowboy]

thank's for the link I have a pc3 on my e glide was just looking to read up on things T max is out of my wallets reach , the pc 3 has done a real fine job for 3-4 yrs now had it dynoed once & it still works

[hotroadking]

When you do this stuff you have to look at the total costs.

A PC 3 at $300 plus a single proper dyno tune at $300 - $600 out of pocket
even if you get both at a discount it's about $500 to be done correctly

You won't get the full ride out of a plug and play PC3 without the dyno tune.

PC5 with AutoTune, TMax or TTS Mastertune is an option for "do it yourselfers" eliminates the need to dyno tune for the most part. So you forgo the $300 to the tuner that you need with a PC3

You can buy the PC5 and Tmax without the Auto Tune, setup a map and then ride add the auto tune later.

The TTS Mastertune lets you map and tune the HD ECM directly so no add on equipment... It includes its tuning sensors etc so it does most of it for you, making you the "on road" dyno operator.

[voodoo1]

Won't know what I will ever do if I end up fuel injected. all This flashing,loops,sensors,dyno'ing. I watch alot of buddies's changing all their stock settings, most a paying some one to do it. I have told them of HRKs reccomendations of the PC5 as well as the PC3s. I like helping the "do it yourselfers" on the PC5. Like HRK stated something about the "popping" I do hear it from the PC5 fellas as much as the pc3s. Enjoy!!

Later
Voo1