[Phil K]

Got the bike back from the shop after some routine service work. The owner and main mechanic told me he noticed some carbon build-up. He recommended riding at higher RPM's, between 3000 - 4000. Said not only would it help blow out the carbon, but I would also be keeping the bike close to its power curve. I told him I was pretty much following the manual, not sure how the previous owner ran it, but said I would give it a try.

Took the bike out, took his advice and DAMN I didn't want to stop. Before I would be in 5th gear at about 45mph, today didn't even think about going there until I hit 60 or so. The bike handled like a dream and every time I cracked the throttle, the bike just took off. LOVED IT!

Granted I noticed I was sacrificing some gas mileage, but I guess there has to be some give and take.

Shifting gears by the speeds listed in the manual, or using the tach and keeping in the 3000 -4000 rpm range, interested in hearing what some more experienced riders think.

Thanks

[Tomflhrci98]

On average, I don't shift into 5th until 60mph. So if you where shifting lower than that you where probably dogging it too much. That doesn't mean that I don't go down to 45 or 50 once in a while and accel back up, but I try not too. I also won't shift into 5th if I am accelerating onto a highway - until I get to 75 or 80 mph sometimes.

Then I shift twice looking for that mysterious 6th LOL.

[08XModel]

I find my bike runs best at 3000 to 3300 rpm with good torque. I had a sportster before and learned to shift and run it by engine sound. Over time you will learn to shift when the engine is in the rpm band. I don't know that I would run the motor at 4000 for extended time.

[chucktx]

4k all day is a bit much, but the twincams will run all day long at 3500 with no problem!!!!

[Tomflhrci98]

I didn't mean to imply that I run around at 75 in 4th gear all the time... only when I am accelerating.

My bike loves 77 to 80 mph in 5th.... that's about 3000 to 3200 I think. I ain't got no tach. "We don't need no stinkin tachs"

That's where the EVO smooths out and I settle in for the cruise.

[Hot01]

I, like Tom, am always trying for 6th - and haven't found it yet.

I don't have a tach either. Around town, when I'm accelerating slowly, I shift earlier and it seems to really need another gear. When I'm getting up to speed quickly, like getting on the Interstate, the further I push it, the better it sounds at higher speeds. It seems weird that it does that, and I've never said it out loud, because I'm not sure if it's for real or just my imagination.

I have wanted a 6 speed tranny on this bike forever, but when I was having all the work done on the motor last year, the mechanic said that it was set up so I'd have good acceleration when I wanted to pass someone on the highway. That's how my cams were chosen - more set up for the long haul than the quick stop light to stop light power. It works. I don't get up to speed as fast as some, but I can be cruising along at 65 and hit 90 in a heart beat. The tech said that if I went to a 6 speed, I would lose some of the power there.

Anyway, I have no idea what the book says, but after 8 years and 85,000 miles, I've figured out what works best for the situation.

[Harleyjeff]

Originally Posted by Tomflhrci98

On average, I don't shift into 5th until 60mph. So if you where shifting lower than that you where probably dogging it too much. That doesn't mean that I don't go down to 45 or 50 once in a while and accel back up, but I try not too. I also won't shift into 5th if I am accelerating onto a highway - until I get to 75 or 80 mph sometimes.

Then I shift twice looking for that mysterious 6th LOL.

I am like Tom. Every once in a while I try looking for that mysterious 6th on my 1998 FLHTCI Classic and never get lucky. But not shifting into 5th until 3-4000 rpm, is that really normal? The manual suggests going to 5th when reaching 45 mph, which is usually revving about 3000. No indication about shifting at a particular RPM. Is that what you do on yours Tom?

[AFNurse]

I feel that much of what the manual says is for optimum operation and savings on gas mileage....keep in mind those cars with manual transmissions that have the idiot light that tells you when to shift...that is for best gas mileage.....NOT the best power band. I tend to shift between 2500 and 3000 if just lazzying around the neighborhood. If I need to get up and go, I will run up to 3500-4000 RMP before shifting....helps get into the power band and accelerate better with less hesitation. If I am already at highway speeds (or close to it....say 45-55mph) and am running 5th gear/2200-2500 rpm, I will drop 1-2 gears before I hammer the throttle....trying to do fast acceleration in fifth gear at those RPMs leaves MUCH to be desired. drop 1-2 then accelerate and shift as needed. depends on your ride style and your desire....do you want response and power every time or do you want to maintain some of the piece and quite of the neighborhood and increase MPG gas wise? I choose both and it depends on situation.

[hotroadking]

You mean cranking the throttle to WOT then shifting is wrong?????

Dang, so that's why everyone stopped riding with me....

[BluePearl]

I the same as most - just tooling around shift at mid 25-2600 but when running to highway speed I let it run out to 3500+ 3rd 4th and then 5th gear settles in nicely at 3000 and doing 75 MPH. I run 5th from 65-75 and if need to pass 3-4 cagers doing 50 I'll drop to 4th and shift 5th mid pass,unless their on a cell phone then I'll let my Kerkers howl for a little longer

[AFNurse]

Originally Posted by BluePearl

I run 5th from 65-75 and if need to pass 3-4 cagers doing 50 I'll drop to 4th and shift 5th mid pass,unless their on a cell phone then I'll let my Kerkers howl for a little longer

That is so passive aggressive.... I LOVE IT!!! I do the same thing.....

[FLHTbiker]

I usually run at a higher RPM before I shift I don't like lugging the motor. In corners I always keep the RPM's up, keeps the front end stiffer and really helps when pulling out of the corner, love it.
I never use the RPM meter when shifting but usually go by the sound of the motor or speed.
Its interesting about hearing reaching for that 6th gear, my 09 Ultra has a
6th gear and I have caught myself trying for 7th gear, maybe I ride to fast and maybe its good there is no more gears.

My 01 Springer although not a good cornering bike I find myself looking for
6th gear in it all the time.

[wvak47]

Looking for 6th. LOL glad that isn't just me, I was starting to wonder. I shift on motor sound and feel. I hate to lug the sporty. Then again I guess bounching off the rev limiter isn't the best idea either LOL though I have done it once or twice while messing with friends at lights . Yeah it's just half a Harley, but they learn it is the fast half normally. I didn't even know there was a book on shifting my Harley, then again us WVians ain't NOin fer arr reedin' bility.

[hotroadking]

I have a 00 Heritage with a 124, the stock primary gears are 3.15 which basically was designed to get RPM's down with the 5 speed, the byproduct - crappy acceleration.

So I bumped it to 3.37, much better power ratio-

So if you find yourself running around in a too low RPM situation then consider changing the outside clutch basket and comp sprocket in the primary so that your ratio is 3.37,

Now if you run a 6 speed the 3.37 or higher numerically (lower ratio gears) is better.

Because of the big engine I can run a 6 speed easy, especially with the 3.37 so I popped in a ElBruto/Midwest 6 speed. Inexpensive $800 compared to bakers $3K deal.

You'll need all new gaskets, new seals, but it's worth it and now at 70 I'm in the high 2000's much nicer cruise...

FOr the 09 RG I don't get into 6th until I'm over 60 to 65 depends on the load, if I"m loafing on a back road I might cheat and slip it into 6th....

3.37 is the real deal, then you will find the bike accelerates better,

You dont' want to lug these vtwins it's like taking a sledge hammer to the bottom end bearings....

BTW that Midwest 6 speed has held up well to the 124 and my friend has one behind a stout 113, his is an evo which is what the trans is designed for, but, I can tell you it will fit in a pre cruise drive stock 5 speed tc case without any machine work he heheheh

[Texas Road Glide]

dam......all these years....i've been riding the wrong way!!
i thought you were suppose to rev the bike to where you thought the motor was gonna pop!!!! and then shift, for some reason i am never looking for 6th, i go through the gears, then coast back down to speed. (hanging head in shame) no need to look for 6th when your doin 125!!
i knew i should have taken that rider saftey course.......


TRG

[BluePearl]

Originally Posted by AFNurse

That is so passive aggressive.... I LOVE IT!!! I do the same thing.....

It's all part of my "Driving Lessons 101"

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by Texas Road Glide

dam......all these years....i've been riding the wrong way!!
i thought you were suppose to rev the bike to where you thought the motor was gonna pop!!!! and then shift, for some reason i am never looking for 6th, i go through the gears, then coast back down to speed. (hanging head in shame) no need to look for 6th when your doin 125!!
i knew i should have taken that rider saftey course.......TRG

LOL !!! "Conventional wisdom" in drag racing & Land-Speed-Record is to hit peak HP (or redline) in each gear before shifting, but staying in the torque band & running to peak HP in high gear only actually makes the bike go faster & we proved it @ the track several times. Very few bikes will pull to peak HP in high gear, but "short-shifting" going thru the gears does make the bike accellerate quicker & when you shift depends on where the torque peak of the engine is & how wide the torque band is.

HP is a mathematical function of torque: HP = (torque x rpm) / 5252. Look @ a dyno chart - the HP & torque curves cross @ 5252 rpm - or @ least they should. HP may continue to climb, but torque will be falling off. (You use a different (metric) formula for engines like a Yamaha that can run over double the rpm of a Harley). But the point is that if your engine has a torque band from say 3500-5200 rpm, that's where you run it for best acceleration, even if peak HP is @ a higher rpm.

For example, a Sportster that makes 167 HP @ 7200 rpm goes faster when the rider shifts @ 5500 rpm & we gear the bike to hit 7200 crossing the finish line in high gear. Hit 7200 rpm in each gear along the way & the bike goes slower. Shifting @ 5500 drops the rpms down just enough to be back in the torque band for the next gear. Yeah, lots of calculations, sprocket changes, etc. involved in a situation like that, but the point remains that running the engine to redline in each gear actually slows you down.

[AFNurse]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

LOL !!! "Conventional wisdom" in drag racing & Land-Speed-Record is to hit peak HP (or redline) in each gear before shifting, but staying in the torque band & running to peak HP in high gear only actually makes the bike go faster & we proved it @ the track several times. Very few bikes will pull to peak HP in high gear, but "short-shifting" going thru the gears does make the bike accellerate quicker & when you shift depends on where the torque peak of the engine is & how wide the torque band is.

HP is a mathematical function of torque: HP = (torque x rpm) / 5252. Look @ a dyno chart - the HP & torque curves cross @ 5252 rpm - or @ least they should. HP may continue to climb, but torque will be falling off. (You use a different (metric) formula for engines like a Yamaha that can run over double the rpm of a Harley). But the point is that if your engine has a torque band from say 3500-5200 rpm, that's where you run it for best acceleration, even if peak HP is @ a higher rpm.

For example, a Sportster that makes 167 HP @ 7200 rpm goes faster when the rider shifts @ 5500 rpm & we gear the bike to hit 7200 crossing the finish line in high gear. Hit 7200 rpm in each gear along the way & the bike goes slower. Shifting @ 5500 drops the rpms down just enough to be back in the torque band for the next gear. Yeah, lots of calculations, sprocket changes, etc. involved in a situation like that, but the point remains that running the engine to redline in each gear actually slows you down.

Not sure if this plays into the equation or not.....when I owned metric, one thing that I noticed was that I could reach top speed faster if, when shifting grears, I got the RPMs UP, but when actually shifting, the shorter the arch in the tack the better for continued speed..... going from 11,500 RPM (my redline at the time) would then drop RPM to 6K or so......almost sluggish acceleration from there..... but shifting at 9K would only drop to 7k or something.....resulting in a much more snappy response.....is this what you are talking about??? Have found it works on the HOG also, but is a bit less noticeable due to my speeds and RPMs now....

[chucktx]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

LOL !!! "Conventional wisdom" in drag racing & Land-Speed-Record is to hit peak HP (or redline) in each gear before shifting, but staying in the torque band & running to peak HP in high gear only actually makes the bike go faster & we proved it @ the track several times. Very few bikes will pull to peak HP in high gear, but "short-shifting" going thru the gears does make the bike accellerate quicker & when you shift depends on where the torque peak of the engine is & how wide the torque band is.

HP is a mathematical function of torque: HP = (torque x rpm) / 5252. Look @ a dyno chart - the HP & torque curves cross @ 5252 rpm - or @ least they should. HP may continue to climb, but torque will be falling off. (You use a different (metric) formula for engines like a Yamaha that can run over double the rpm of a Harley). But the point is that if your engine has a torque band from say 3500-5200 rpm, that's where you run it for best acceleration, even if peak HP is @ a higher rpm.

For example, a Sportster that makes 167 HP @ 7200 rpm goes faster when the rider shifts @ 5500 rpm & we gear the bike to hit 7200 crossing the finish line in high gear. Hit 7200 rpm in each gear along the way & the bike goes slower. Shifting @ 5500 drops the rpms down just enough to be back in the torque band for the next gear. Yeah, lots of calculations, sprocket changes, etc. involved in a situation like that, but the point remains that running the engine to redline in each gear actually slows you down.

hi art.....nice to see ya posting!!!!!!!! great advise!!!!!

[FLHTbiker]

Very true Art, nice to see you posting again.