[Goose]

We raced at Katy this weekend, not one of my better performances. I packed up and drove home after my last race, didn't stick around for the endurance today. My friend, John Casley was sitting chatting with friends when out of nowhere a bullet hits his foot! Man, I'm glad it wasn't his head! I'm glad I wasn't standing in the way chattin' with him which often I am!

It didn't break any bones and he was planning to ride today. I'd offered to ride for him if I'd stayed. I teamed with him last season and we were third superbike, third overall on the season. This season, John's team is leading a tight chase for the championship in light weight and he was planning to be at the track today and ride and this is on his shifting foot. That little two stroke takes a lot of shifting and I've ended days on that thing with a boo boo on the top of my foot from all the danged shifting. John's a tough little fart, though.

The track is out in the boonies, but there are upscale neighborhoods around there, just west of Houston. Lots of open country side. Sure is scary to think what COULD have happened here. I guess they'll never catch the bozo that fired this shot. He was obviously an irresponsible idiot and by Texas law, he is both civilly and criminally liable for this.

[AZroaddust]

Maybe I've watched too many forensic type shows on TV. I'm not a balistics expert, but if he was just sitting and it hit him in the foot as indicated by the pictorial evidence submitted, I would probably surmise that it was more than likely fired by some friggen idiot who was shooting into the air and it could have been miles and miles away. If you calculate the acceleration rate in FPS times the the mass of the bullet divided by the square of the head of the numbskull who shot it, you could figure out what the idiot looked like and go kick his arse.

The bullet apppears too pointed and small for a .22 and too small for a .223 (NATO 556), so I'm again guessing that it's one of the new .177's.??

I'm sure your freind doesn't care since it probably hurt like hell regardles of what it is! If it were me, I'd put a hole in it and wear it on a chain!

My best to your buddy for a quick recovery. It's buttheads like whoever fired that mother that gives us law-abiding gun-toten motorcyle riders a bad name!

[chucktx]

man, how scarry is that???? what an idiot to shoot in the air......them things have to come down somewhere!!! i hope it doesnt become more fodder for the gun activasts.......
chuck

[AFNurse]

THat is just a bit too close.....as to the shooting into the air...not so sure about that.... Saw an episode on that show Mythbusters....They shoot verious firepower strait up and were able to recover all rounds (or most of them anyway) by using listening devices to "hear them hit" and weather conditions to calculate where they "might hit". They were also in a dry lake bed, so surface was a "bit more smooth??!!". Anyway, even the .30 cal rounds were found no more then 2-3 inches into the softer dirt....AND non of the rounds hit strait...all were "free falling/tumbling". for a round to go into his foot like that tells me it was on the "last legs" of it's travel and NOT in a free fall mode from being shot strait up. LUCKY either way. Tell him to get better soon!....oh, and if he hasn't gotten a tetnus shot in the last 4-5 years, tell him to get one..... they call it good for 10 years, but school of thought is that is good for 10 years with minor scratches....for a puncture like that, they normally do one for just about anything over 1 year!!

[AZroaddust]

[quote=AFNurse;14980]THat is just a bit too close.....as to the shooting into the air...not so sure about that.... Saw an episode on that show Mythbusters....They shoot verious firepower strait up and were able to recover all rounds (or most of them anyway) by using listening devices to "hear them hit" and weather conditions to calculate where they "might hit". They were also in a dry lake bed, so surface was a "bit more smooth??!!". Anyway, even the .30 cal rounds were found no more then 2-3 QUOTE]

I did NOT see the episode, and personally I'm not a big fan of "Mythbusters". With that said and my prejudice admitted, I would guess that Mythbusters was shooting STRAIGHT up into the air and probably used a level to get the barrell at 90 degress perpendicular to the flat lake bed surface and there was no appreciable wind to allow bullet drift when fired.

In real life, most people shoot into the air at an angle of at least 5 degrees and as much as 45 degrees. There is usually a wind even if not noticeable on the surface, and the bullet will drift.

For example, Phoenix really cracks down around new years eve by installing portable devices to listen for gunfire. One young girl was killed a couple of years ago by a bullet fired about ONE MILE AWAY! Drop within a few feet? I really don't think so. I wouldn't bet my life on anything Mythbusters has to say. And please, don't be shooting into the air!

Sorry.

[AFNurse]

I completely agree witht the take home message.....know where your bullet is going to stop..... Only point I was trying to make is that it almost had to still be under "power" to get that kind of penitration. Could not be just a random "I am a bullet that is completely spent just falling back to earth". That would not have enuf power and would not penetrate like this one did. My guess is that someone was target shooting or squirl hunting (awful big round for squirl, but ya never know! ) and either missed, or discharged the round in a somewhat upward direction. just enuf to allow it to bury in a foot under some control/power (tho at a VERY MAX range otherwise more damage would have been done.) I get a kick out of the show, but do not think that it is much more then entertainment....and maybe a bit of gee whiz trivia that may/may not pertain to anything!!!

[Killer-B]

OUCH, That bullet is definitely a keeper, shine it up and put it on a chain or something. A conversation piece if nothing else.

[CD]

Chris,

Sorry, have to disagree. A couple of years ago there was a dude charged for murder in CA after firing a rifle into the air. The bullet came down, struck and killed an innocent person. Here in sunny Tucson, a little girl was injured when a bullet entered their trailer through the roof and hit her on the head.

At the end of the Myth busters show they spoke with several experts and the doctor that told them about the CA case and several others.

The key is in the ballistic trajectory or the angle the gun is fired at. A 30.06 can accurately hit targets at 500 (1500ft) yards or better. There have been many sniper kills at very long ranges using 30.06 ammo. At 100 yards a 30.06 round has a pretty flat trajectory. At 200 yards and more, the trajectory begins to drop substantially requiring you to increase the elevation of the barrel in order to maintain accuracy. If someone elevates the barrel to 45º the bullet has a trajectory similar to an artillery round and can still have plenty of punch way down range.

What the Myth busters were testing was the theory of shooting vertically and amply demonstrated that if all of the energy is expended vertically, the bullet will only drop at it's terminal velocity. But, as the angle changes from vertical the energy of the bullet increases proportionally

[AFNurse]

I understand this.... Infact, I have a 7mm Mag....zero at 300m....took a shot at a deer at 1000meters..... would have killed it had I HIT it. I was not aware of the cases that you are talking about. I didn't catch the whole show so didn't know they were talking about the max terminal velosity. I know that a bullet with any kind of its own power still left will do damage a a LONG distance! (know of some people that use .223 to shoot prarie dogs at 1000m or more).... I would agree that it is probable that someone shot the round at an arch....I was originally thinking of the "strait up shot"..... no offense taken from this end!

[hotroadking]

Several similar cases here where nutcases have fired into the sky, not straight up and they have killed people just walking around outside.

[chucktx]

i have found 9mm and 38 bullets on the floor of my shop, with mushrooming....after they came through the steel roof.........stupid houston idiots...
chuck

[Goose]

Yeah, I posted this on a gun board and they've been yappin' about that Mythbusters thing like it was a good old caliber war or something. ROFL! I, personally, don't volunteer to stand under a falling bullet of any kind. There were a couple hundred folks at Katy this weekend, lots of kids, wives, etc. I'm just glad John stopped it with his foot, better'n someone's head! I could have easily lost a good friend this weekend. The TMGP thing is a very close community of friends, almost like family.

I've been thinking of picking up a flack jacket and kevlar helmet for Katy next season. ROFL! Guess I could return fire, but I wouldn't know what direction or how much to elevate.

[AZroaddust]

Yeah, I don''t want to beat a dead horse, so for all the naysayers who think a bullet in "free fall' "has no power left", please look up the term "Terminal Velocity".

I now excuse myself from further discussion on this particlular subject lest someone bring up wind shear, updrafts and all that. My God non-belivers! Just look at the picture, realize his feet were flat on the ground and look at where the "floating bullet" came from.

The Great One, Mohammud Ali, said it right; "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee".

Your's truly,

AZ.

[stevenh]

That picture is wild though. I'm not sure why.

[Goose]

Well, it is the real thing, no photochop here. I know him personally, though I was on the way home when it happened, but there were plenty of witnesses when it happened.

I don't know that his foot was flat on the ground, though. He was sitting in a chair chatting and he might have had his foot propped up or must on the heal, don't know, but it sure looks painful. With that much momentum left, that bullet would have penetrated a skull. Scary stuff when I think about it.

All the pics Holly (John's wife) took at the emergency room are here. http://www.wrwracing.com/20061014/

MPeG of the doc pulling the bullet the rest of the way out.... http://www.wrwracing.com/20061014/Untitled.mpg

[stevenh]

Originally Posted by Goose

Well, it is the real thing, no photochop here. I know him personally, though I was on the way home when it happened, but there were plenty of witnesses when it happened.

I don't doubt the authenticity Goose.
I think that picture could win some kind of contest. 'Though I suppose there's pictures of people with arrow's in their head and stuff like that.

I had a big nail go through my foot once. Missed the bone and didn't hurt at all. If it weren't for all the blood leaking out my boot I would have stayed at work (dumb as I was).

[Goose]

Here's John's post on the CMRA board. Karts were out practicing so no wonder no one heard any distant gunshots.

I don't know how I missed this thread, I guess I was too concerned about the Ronnie & Greg situation.

So here's the story...

We had finished sprints and were sitting in the pits chatting and enjoying some after race refreshments.

Jon Whitfill, Roger Albert and I were sitting in lawn chairs in my pit. Out of nowhere we heard a loud cracking sound like a firecracker and I felt a blow to my foot. It didn't hurt at first, but seconds later a very sharp pain hit me.

At first I thought one of the many kids in attendance threw a rock or one of the carts that were praticing threw a part.

But, we didn't see anything on the ground. Jon Whitfill said "Dude! You've been shot!"

Kinda in disbelief, I pulled my shoe off enough to see quite a bit of blood. "Ok let's put that back on". My first response was "Where's the ambulance!" but they had already left. Roger Albert ran to grab Holly, in order to transport. I decided to get a better look, and pulled my shoe completely off to reveal the bullet sticking out of the sole of my foot. That's when the camera man was called in; thanks to Don Wagnon, we have a good shot shortly after the incident.

Ross Smith loaded me into the truck, Jeff Phillips jumped on phone to the police, and we hauled ass to Tomball E.R.

My aunt is a R.N. at Tomball E.R. and could get me in quickly, CyFair was a 5 hour wait.

A paramedic was waiting at the ambulance entrance when we arrived and a bed prepped. A quick I.V.,phenergan ("WTF! that hurts!"), dilaudid ("Aaah that's better, just pull that bullet out"), Xrays, Tetanus, forceps, excruciating irigation and lots of photos. It's a wrap!

BTW
mythbusters is full of it.

[Tomflhrci98]

Originally Posted by CD

What the Myth busters were testing was the theory of shooting vertically and amply demonstrated that if all of the energy is expended vertically, the bullet will only drop at it's terminal velocity. But, as the angle changes from vertical the energy of the bullet increases proportionally

"Terminal velocity" interesting phrase.
What is the terminal velocity? I did not see that episode. Where they able to guess the velocity as a percentage of initial velocity?

Is it high enough to penetrate 2 inches of soft flesh. Which by the looks of the picture it barely got through. I suppose if it had hit his head it could have killed him or just cracked his skull.

[CD]

Originally Posted by Tomflhrci98

"Terminal velocity" interesting phrase.
What is the terminal velocity? I did not see that episode. Where they able to guess the velocity as a percentage of initial velocity?

Is it high enough to penetrate 2 inches of soft flesh. Which by the looks of the picture it barely got through. I suppose if it had hit his head it could have killed him or just cracked his skull.

Terminal velocity is defined as the point where the mass (weight) of an object equals drag so the object can no longer accelerate in a free fall. If you dropped two objects of the same mass the object with less drag will have a higher terminal velocity. A bullet falling point down will have a higher terminal velocity than one falling sideways. Firing a bullet is like shooting a rocket straight up to where it hits it's apex and speed drops to zero momentarily and then the object accelerates downward until reaching it's terminal velocity.

When you change the angle from vertical the apex decreases and the trajectory becomes an arc much like artillery. When you are firing at targets at say, 100, 500 and 1000 yards, the barrel has to be elevated more at each increasing distance. The bullet then flies in an arc shaped trajectory and if the settings are correct, you will hit the bulls eye at each distance. Bullet weight, amount of the charge, air density and wind conditions are the main variables.

[Tomflhrci98]

So it IS reasonable to accept that Superman CAN catch a speeding bullit.... He just has to jump high enough