[FLHTbiker]

WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S. PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
'My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defe at of the Iraq regime has been completed.

Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete.

This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.


Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short . The United Kingdom , Spain , Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

The other list contains every one not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

Let me st art by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. THEN EVERY YEAR THERE AFTER IT'll GO TO OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20 YEARS.

The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine ? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .

In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home . On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.

Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France or maybe China .

I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bonne chance, mezamies.

I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York

A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

Mexico is also on List 2 its president and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border security.

Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.

We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska- which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there.

It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, 'darn tootin.'

Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.

To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

God bless America .. Thank you and good night.'

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.

[SPORSTERBOY]

Would Be Nice.

[wvak47]

If I were that Prez, I wouldn't get near any grassy knolls anytime soon after delivering that. Actually I would move under ground in a VERY undisclosed area.

[charlieharley0057]

Will we be seeing your name on the presidential candidates list in the near future? If so I will immigarte (I am from a country on list one) just so I can vote for you.

[SK]

Easier said than done. Isolate ourselves like that and you allow extremists around the world to get bigger and stronger and they'll be attacking us on our turf with a vigilance. Not only that, our economy would really tank as this world is now built on a global economy.

I may be a Republican who voted for Bush in the past, but Bush has been one of the worst presidents in modern history. He relied on cronies to do the job instead of hiring the right folks for the job, e.g., Donald Rumsfeld as the biggest example. He screwed up the Iraq war so bad he'll probably go down as the worst Secretary of Defense in history. The only reason things have been turning around is Gen. Petraeus and allowing him to do his job without interference.

Here's hoping McCain gets the job and get Congress from both sides to work together..something Bush has no clue how to do. A polarizing Congress has gotten nothing done of late.

Ok..off my soapbox now.

[Red Rider]

Funny how those of us that actually served with Secretary Rumsfeld were never prouder in our SecDef. I even thanked him personally during my retirement ceremony. Guess I'm just a crony, too!

Here's to ya, Rummy!

[SPORSTERBOY]

THEY ALL SUCK NO MATTER WHO GETS ELECTED, WE ARE ALL DOOMED, AT LEAST NOW WE ARE USE TO GETTING THE SHAFT. CAN'T SAY NOBODY COULD BE WORSE THAN BUSH, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY WORSE. BAD THING IS THE NEXT PRES. WILL HAVE TO SPEND THE NEXT 4 YEARS CLEANING UP BUSH'S F-UPS OR MAKE THEM WORSE. ETHER WAY THERE SCREWED SO WERE SCREWED

[Sleepy]

A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

I have a bit of an issue with that one, while I'll be the first to admit that we've been a little slack in our committment to NATO in past years I feel that the present goverment is working hard to restore the military that was neglected. Our soldiers in Afghanistan are starting to some better equipment to work with and we're there thru 2011. No we didn't go to Iraq. Nato, including us would have gone in at the beginning under different conditions. Bush chose a different path. The country was split on that decision, we still are. Be pissed off at us, but be pissed off for the right reasons

This NAFTA thing is going to be very very interesting in the next few years. a lot of multinationals have spent a long time massaging this program, they're not going to let it go without a fight. After all, they're the ones that lobbied to put it there in the first place. Money talks Bull**** walks right? NAFTA hasn't been a complete bed of roses for us, you guys have some pretty sharp lawyers..that hasn't gone unoticed either.

Trust me, I'd love to be able to go to the store and pick up a shirt that's made here, jeans that are made here, furniture that's made here and eat food that's grown here but it's getting harder to do that. I really hate the idea of that someone in New York dictates the price I pay for natural gas to heat my home and the price of gasoline to drive my car. Let's not talk about what Enron did for electrical.

I really hope you guys get things turned around soon, having a devided country is bad news.

I'll leave you with this from a peacekeeper in Afghanistan

For those who are against the mission. You may not have noticed, but there have been a number of posters here who are in favour of the mission. You may also not have noticed that a significant number of them are not only serving soldiers but have actually been there and have some knowledge of the situation on the ground (including myself).

Most of us will be going back and are look forward to the opportunity. None of them are looking forward to more combat, we all want to rebuild the country and bring it into the 21st century. During my tour I talked to a number of Afghans and they all want this. Most Afghans are simple farmers who want nothing more than to provide for their families, just like we do.

The Taliban did not provide a suitable environment for them to do this, forcing them to grow opium poppy, preventing them from getting an education, not welcoming foreign aid etc etc etc ... NATO are trying to.

Are there problems with the mission ... yes! Are there some obstacles which may be insurmountable ... probably. Does this mean we fold up our tent and go home? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

If the developed world cannot come to the aid of the less priveledged countries then what are we here for? Should we have been in Rwanda? Yes ... we screwed up there. Should we be in the Sudan? Yes ... the international community needs to get off its arse and go there too!

Does any of that mean we should pull out of Afghanistan? Again ... ABSOLUTELY NOT! What would pulling out do except condemn the Afghan people to more years of poverty and near slavery? And show the rest of the world that Canada can't be counted on to fulfill it's international obligations.

For a change the international community is dong the right thing and we should be 100% behind both our troops and the mission itself.

Yes ... it will be hard. Yes ... it will take time. Yes ... there will be some questionable choices made. That just means we should put our full weight behind it and not dither like we're doing.

If we can make this mission work then we will have proven that the world can pull itself together and achieve something noble.

A Canadian soldier

[FLHTbiker]

When I posted that message I did not realize it would cause so mush issues. It was a message that was sent to me and thought that it would make for some interesting conversation, however I would never want anyone getting real upset over it.
Bob, I for one have always felt that Canada is a great and proud country. Some of the other countries like France I do have some issues with.

As for a president that to me that was worse than Bush would be Mr. Clinton. I have absolutely no respect or use for him.

I do feel going into Iraq was the right thing to do but wished that Bush would have worked better with other countries before charging in. I also wish that we would have done things differently when we occupied Iraq.

As for Canada if I lived there I would be proud of my country. No country is perfect and it depends on their leaders at the present time.

I know if Obama gets in we will loose Iraq and it will become a haven for terrorist and barbarism. That is something to seriously think about.

[fujimo]

let me see,,bush asked congess to vote to go to iraq,,afgan,,,majority voted to go,,,so lets bitch or re-elect ALL of those who voted to go ,,including hilery,,, and dont tell me how they were misled,,, crap i would hope my senators were smart enough to figure things out themselves,,, most of them are lawyers for gods sake,,,years of education,,, but i believe we were right in going ,,,interesting happening at last funeral,,,i belong to patriot gaurd,,, went into macdonalds as we were waiting for time to ride ,,and was raining hard outside,,,there was a group called veterans for peace there,,, we walked over and asked if we could sit with them,,, man with me has a son in marine corp in iraq,,, he told them his son wrote him progress was bieng made over there and that most of people were glad u.s. was there,,, they told him he was wrong,,, so he tryed to give them his sons e-mail add,,, they would not take it,,, i think they had planed to demonstrate,,but changed there mind as more of us pulled up,,, their convictions were obviously not as deep rooted as they liked to have others believe,,, as a world leader ,,we must help others,,, same as walking down street and seeing some person being beaten by 6 or 7 others,,, do you stop to help,,, i would hope so,,, pops

[wvak47]

Originally Posted by fujimo

same as walking down street and seeing some person being beaten by 6 or 7 others,,, do you stop to help,,, i would hope so,,, pops

Nah if 6 or 7 is on one leave them alone, more than 3 on 1 and they are beating each other just as badly. J/K

Today's politics equates to professional wrestling to me. They talk a bunch of trash about each other, and then eat dinner together. All the trash talk is good for ratings and keeping ignorant people interested. Someday America will wake up (mostlikely in chains) and realize our elected officials don't love us, but they sure like to screw us. How is that story, prostitution is the oldest profession on earth. Polotics is the second oldest and it has an amazing similarity to the first.

This crap brings me down, dang it lets ride.

[SK]

Not all servicemen were proud of Rumsfeld. I know a couple of high ranking officers currently in Iraq who were also there when Rumsy was running the show. They were vehemently against several of his policies (lacking in proper equipment and manpower, plus alienating the Iraqi civilian population from the get-go). I also served in the military for 8 years, several when Rumsy was secretary of defense the first time he held the job, though we weren't at war then. I'm not just a civilian bitching. I personally like Rumsy as a person, and there's no doubt he's a proud American and patriot who loves his country and his soldiers. He didn't delegate well at all, especially with Brenner who originally was in charge of getting the civilian govt up and running. Was it all his fault? Hell no, but he was the man in charge of the Pentagon and is one of the main people to blame for the failed policies in the early parts of the war.

[Red Rider]

Rumsfeld made enemies with fans of the budget busting weapons. The Army's Crusader system was a prime example of something that was the perfect system for WWII. Cutting Air Force waste in stealth technology and Navy waste in submarine and fighter tech was also not popular - but why make a B-2 bomber for 2 Billion dollars when it releases it's payload 140nm from enemy fire? Why make hundreds of fighters when there is no one to challenge us in the sky - and it really is the missile that makes the fighter, anyway.

I bet most anti-Rumsfeld folks were of two molds - those that lacked vision to see how the fight was changing, and those that feared for their job security. Rumsfeld wasn't a big fan of non-hackers, whether they were high-ranking officers or not.

Heck, I know there are many high-ranking officers that didn't like Rumsfeld. Many of them made their rank as Clinton appeasers, wasting our assets on show-ops and then turning a blind eye to the real issues of the day. Some are just too caught up in the historical way armies used to work, and resent the changes he made. But a big part of the reason GEN Petraeus is a general is Rumsfeld, as they shared the vision that the Army had to be more SpecOp than manuever-oriented in the asymetrical warfare of today.

......but enough of this. I'd just ask that before any of you buy into media hype, ya think it all through.

[Slimjim]

IMO Bush was absolutely right to do what he did in Afghanistan and Iraq. His biggest mistake was to wait so long screwing around with the UN which gave Saddam time to hide or deport his WMDs.
The attached picture is an Iraqi jet, an advanced Russian MiG-25 Foxbat, which was found buried in the sand after an informant tipped off U.S. troops. The MiG was dug out of a massive sand dune near the Al Taqqadum airfield by U.S. Air Force recovery teams. The MiG was reportedly one of over two dozen Iraqi jets buried in the sand, like hidden treasure, waiting to be recovered at a later date. Contrary to what some in the major media have reported, not all the jets found were from the Gulf War era.
The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops in the photo is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices. Who is to say the same thing hasn't happened with nuclear devices.

[SK]

I agree Red, I don't want to argue about it. My info that I base my reasoning on has nothing to do with the media. It comes from a colonel who hates Clinton and backed Bush to the hilt (though disagreed from the start the early policies of the war) and works directly for Petraeus as we speak. Any way..I like Rumsy, he was just not the right person for the job.

I also back winning this war to the max. I just wish we'd gone in much better prepared and not alienated so many (including the Sunnis) from the start.

[Red Rider]

Hard not to alienate the Sunnis....Saddam was the Sunni leader!

[SK]

I know Saddam was their leader. What I mean is if we would've brought some of the Sunnis, especially the Bathists in to help restart the government, then not so many of them would've become insurgents helping al Qaeda. One of the biggest mistakes at the beginning of the war. Now we have to pay em $10/day not to shoot at us. That's mainly more Brenner's fault, but Rumsy was his boss.

[Ultra Al]

I voted for Bush 4 times in the last 2 elections. My biggest disappointment was his lack of cajones,too bad more of Barbra Bush didn't rub off. Let the generals handle the war. the same thing happened when I was in Vietnam, politicians stopped us from taking care of business. Al