[cardboard]

Anybody wondered why HD has nearly gone under like 2 times over the years?
Ever looked at other bikes and seen how far advanced they are.

Was talkin to a friend that works for a BMW dealership that has a 04 Motor Guzzi California. It has Brembo brakes, dual front calipers, Metzler tires just to name a few thing and its not that big of a bike. Why didn't HD put dual calipers on the 07 Wide Glide I had that didn't stop that great. Hd just come out with Brembo brakes in 08.
Seems like HD biggest concern is the EPA .
The EPA and the Go Green is gonna have us ridding bicycles.

Look at this bike that was made in 04

Moto Guzzi

[HellBoy]

Don't know, I've wondered the same thing myself.

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by cardboard

Anybody wondered why HD has nearly gone under like 2 times over the years?
Ever looked at other bikes and seen how far advanced they are.

Was talkin to a friend that works for a BMW dealership that has a 04 Motor Guzzi California. It has Brembo brakes, dual front calipers, Metzler tires just to name a few thing and its not that big of a bike. Why didn't HD put dual calipers on the 07 Wide Glide I had that didn't stop that great. Hd just come out with Brembo brakes in 08.
Seems like HD biggest concern is the EPA .
The EPA and the Go Green is gonna have us ridding bicycles.

Look at this bike that was made in 04

Moto Guzzi

H-D has to be dragged kicking & screaming into more modern technology & the market they see is why - a lot of buyers are those who wanted a Harley back when they were teenagers but couldn't afford one. Now they can & they want the "old school" bike they couldn't get 30-40 years ago.

And surprisingly, the majority of customers don't care about performance features - for example, unquestionably the best motorcycle H-D ever offered to the public was the Sportster 1200S "Sport" model, discontinued after the 2003 model year. True cartridge forks externally adjustable for damping & rebound, as are the reservoir rear shocks. Dual front disc brakes & stickier tires. Dual-plug SE heads & a much better ignition system than the other models. But that bike didn't sell & some dealers didn't even order them. And it appears that the new XR1200 will only be available in Europe.

As far as the EPA concerns, that is a major factor - H-D would not have gone to fuel injection if they didn't have to. And they know that sooner or later it'll be impossible to get an air-cooled engine to pass emissions regulations - VW & Porsche saw that coming years ago. Wonder why H-D went to Porsche for the development of the liquid-cooled V-Rod engine?

One of the reasons for that bike is to get the customer base used to seeing the new engine & I've already seen one Electra-Glide style bike with a version of it. It was a one-off custom, but expect to see more of that. The next jump to tighter emissions regulations is in 2010 & last I read, while Buell can pass them now, H-D can't. Oh, they will, but the days of air-cooled engines are numbered - even for dirt bikes.

[gutierg]

Originally Posted by cardboard

Anybody wondered why HD has nearly gone under like 2 times over the years?
Ever looked at other bikes and seen how far advanced they are.

Was talkin to a friend that works for a BMW dealership that has a 04 Motor Guzzi California. It has Brembo brakes, dual front calipers, Metzler tires just to name a few thing and its not that big of a bike. Why didn't HD put dual calipers on the 07 Wide Glide I had that didn't stop that great. Hd just come out with Brembo brakes in 08.
Seems like HD biggest concern is the EPA .
The EPA and the Go Green is gonna have us ridding bicycles.

Look at this bike that was made in 04

Moto Guzzi

I find that incredibly amazing, their name recognition is unique in the motorcycle world, by default they should be cashing in.

I ride the new radical departure from the classic Harley family line in the form of a VRASCAW 2008 V-Rod. Brembo dual disc fron and rear brakes sets, by the way the caliper is manufactured by Brembo but relabeled as Harley. Liquid cooled and a ton less vibrations and extremely nimble. 240mm rear tire that can handle a nice twisty country road or a ride in the highway just the same.

Funny enough, the majority of the Harley family has various opinions on this particular bike because it does not look like a "Harley". How sad is that?
Wether people agree or not, a liquid cooled cruiser will be out there, becasue otherwise the newer generation will head in the direction of an EFI, Liquid Cooled smooth rider like the BMW's or other brands that I would rather not mention.

Quietly I think Harley is keeping it under wraps, but don't be surprised when a liquid cooled cruiser blows by you effortlessly doing 80 MPH at 4500 RPM, and that is without "punching it" Just IMHO.

Regards,
German

[SPORSTERBOY]

I THINK ALL THOSE PAST DRUGS ARE STARTING TO HAVE A EFFECT ON SOME OF YA JMO I THINK THAT HARLEY ONLY CHANGES FOR MARKETING STRATAGY TO BUILD A BIKE THE CHEAPEST AND SELL FOR HIGHER PROFIT, SORRY AS HYPED UP AS THEY GOT THE V-ROD UP THERE, DIDN'T GO OVER VERY WELL, SURE IT GOT THE OOO'S AND AAAA'S, AND SURE THEY PROB PEGGED SOME OF THE OTHER RIDERS INTO BUY'N ONE, HECK I EVEN WENT AND RENTED ONE JUST TO SEE, AND YEP, I SAID IT, RIDE'S LIKE A HONDA, LOOKS LIKE ONE. GREAT POWER AND COMFFY, WHICH IN A BUSINESS SENCE THEY WANTED TO STAKE SOME TURF IN A DIFFERN'T MARKET, FOR A BIKE THEY INVESTED SO MUCH IN, DOES'NT SEEM TO BE PAYING OFF, BUT WHAT DO I KNOW. I THINK EMISSIONS ARE A LITTLE MORE LAX THAN SOME MIGHT THINK, JUST DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LIVE, MOTORCYCLES HERE DON'T EVEN GO THROUGH EMMISSIONS, AND IF YOU LIVE OUT OF CITY LIMITS OR IN THE SOUROUNDING COUNTYS, YOUR CAR DOESN'T HAVE TO DO EMMISSIONS EITHER. AND I THINK THE GO GREEN IS A PHONY CROCK OF YOU KNOW WHAT, TARGET THE LITTLE GUY, SURE WE CAN ALL DO OUR LITTLE PART, BUT THERE ARE BIGGER FISH IN THE POND THEY SHOULD SPEND THERE MONEY AND EFFERTS ON, OH THAT'S RIGHT THOSE BIGGER FISH ARE THE ONES FUNDING THEM.

[Art_NJr]

I THINK EMISSIONS ARE A LITTLE MORE LAX THAN SOME MIGHT THINK, JUST DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LIVE, MOTORCYCLES HERE DON'T EVEN GO THROUGH EMMISSIONS, AND IF YOU LIVE OUT OF CITY LIMITS OR IN THE SOUROUNDING COUNTYS, YOUR CAR DOESN'T HAVE TO DO EMMISSIONS EITHER.

Wish you'd quit yelling (all caps) Must remember that except for bikes set to go to California, H-D doesn't know where they'll end up, so they have to make all bikes pass the strictest standards in the other States. For example, while some counties in North Carolina don't have emissions testing, others do & H-D doesn't know which county a bike sold @ a N.C. dealer will be registered in. There's no testing in this county, but there is in 2 neighboring counties where 2 dealers are. And the bike may very well end up in another State. N.C. isn't doing bikes yet, but knowing how liberal the legislature is, you can bet there will be. Heck, I've even seen talk about catalytic converter exhaust on lawnmowers.

[hotroadking]

If I wanted a frigging euro designed two wheeled tractor I'd get a beemeemdubya.

Never met a friendly beemer rider they are a stuck up buncha riders for the most part, ""achtung my bikst eeest beetter beeelit than yours!"

HD takes time to catch up on some tech, brakes took forever, before you complain about brembos think back to the late 90s and they still had single puck brakes. Then dual calipers

Ya gotta remember the bikes were 60 HP tanks, they are not designed (for the most part) to be fast corner carving high center of gravity bikes.

They are touring and cruisers not moto-sport, cross-sport, canyon carvers.

HD is about riding, friendship, reflection, history, coolnification (yeah it's now a word I asked GHWB) lots more than all the parts.

They have been drug into the later century more so because EPA and competition has forced them to upgrade things, that's the way it works.

Bigger motors, 6 speeds, Delphi EFI, Brembos, Throttle by wire mp3 player belt drive, wider tires, etc

Just remember how many times the HD faithful have shouted loudly"

I'll never ride a HD with (insert newest technology),

Lots of old sentiment to deal with that has made the company have to make changes slowley and with great care, design look and feel are important.

I betcha they could make my B motor even smoother, 4 valves, water cooled, belt drive gears or overhead cams like a Victory, then again, would it still be a HD or just another cruiser with a logo on the tank.

I like the simplicity and crankyness of my 00 Softail carb model bike.

I wouldn't mind a water cooled bagger, more compression can be achieved which means more power! Hey maybe a 150 hp bagger off the floor

[gutierg]

Read the attached image in detail, that is why the Harley community rejects a V-Rod?

German

[maxpower_hd]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

Wish you'd quit yelling (all caps) Must remember that except for bikes set to go to California, H-D doesn't know where they'll end up, so they have to make all bikes pass the strictest standards in the other States. For example, while some counties in North Carolina don't have emissions testing, others do & H-D doesn't know which county a bike sold @ a N.C. dealer will be registered in. There's no testing in this county, but there is in 2 neighboring counties where 2 dealers are. And the bike may very well end up in another State. N.C. isn't doing bikes yet, but knowing how liberal the legislature is, you can bet there will be. Heck, I've even seen talk about catalytic converter exhaust on lawnmowers.

Agreed. I also believe that even if you don't have emissions testing in your state, the bikes are manufactured to a minimum federal emissions standard. So, if your state did adopt emissions testing a new stock bike would pass it.

As far as California emissions go, they ain't just for Cali anymore. Other states, like MA, have tightened up their emissions testing to be in line with the CA emissions standard. It sucks ducks too.

[cardboard]

Originally Posted by gutierg

I find that incredibly amazing, their name recognition is unique in the motorcycle world, by default they should be cashing in.

I ride the new radical departure from the classic Harley family line in the form of a VRASCAW 2008 V-Rod. Brembo dual disc fron and rear brakes sets, by the way the caliper is manufactured by Brembo but relabeled as Harley. Liquid cooled and a ton less vibrations and extremely nimble. 240mm rear tire that can handle a nice twisty country road or a ride in the highway just the same.

Funny enough, the majority of the Harley family has various opinions on this particular bike because it does not look like a "Harley". How sad is that?
Wether people agree or not, a liquid cooled cruiser will be out there, becasue otherwise the newer generation will head in the direction of an EFI, Liquid Cooled smooth rider like the BMW's or other brands that I would rather not mention.

Quietly I think Harley is keeping it under wraps, but don't be surprised when a liquid cooled cruiser blows by you effortlessly doing 80 MPH at 4500 RPM, and that is without "punching it" Just IMHO.

Regards,
German

If my bike run as smooth as the V-Rod and had a 300 mm back tire my wife would have me to trade it in on one that vibrates. She likes the vibration not a smooth ride.

[gutierg]

Originally Posted by cardboard

If my bike run as smooth as the V-Rod and had a 300 mm back tire my wife would have me to trade it in on one that vibrates. She likes the vibration not a smooth ride.

Don't blame you there man! The gilrs need to be satisfied and that's final!

[detailer57]

H-D is more advanced then you think. Take a look at the metric copys.

Most of them still have carbs and suspension that is 20 years old. My 07 FXD gets better mileage then any of the metric guys I ride with.

They gave me heat because the H-D is "old". then I remind them I have injection, I corner better then them.

[mwelych]

Why should they??? They got morons like us (me included) that seem to be loyal to the bitter end. As long as we continue the ride Harley's, they'll build 'em the same way they've be doing it...

[voodoo1]

Amen to that HRK. Keep it simple (in a CLassic Harley way.) If I wanted all the fancy gizmos and gadgets and latest tech I would NOT have bought HDs for 30 years.It is more than a techride, it is a ride from the past that has been through wars with our past generations and is part of Amercian History. More than just a bike to me. Guess if I wanted the gadgets and all I'd bought something else......but not gonna happen. I still don't wanna own fuel injection bikes. I like my CARbs and get tired of hearing, "Oh yeah but when ya get up in those high alts".......(I gotta a screw driver ya know) ..meanwhile back at that "flash" and hope it don't pop scene..no thanks)

[chucktx]

Originally Posted by cardboard

If my bike run as smooth as the V-Rod and had a 300 mm back tire my wife would have me to trade it in on one that vibrates. She likes the vibration not a smooth ride.

ya know................i always wondered why she throws her arms up in the air somtimes while riding......................now i know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FlynDutchman]

I like my bike to "shake" too.....& I don't care what the Japs or the Brits are doing with their bikes...I like Harleys to look like Harleys. A guy at work just bought one of those Suzuki Bulevards (sp?) Its a nice lookin bike but I gotta tell ya...everything that shines aint metal.....Lots of plastic.

[cardboard]

Originally Posted by chucktx

ya know................i always wondered why she throws her arms up in the air somtimes while riding......................now i know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ain't got no idea what she's doing back there when riding, sometimes she makes the bike jump around on the road. I keep telling her to be still.

HD could of done put dual calipers on a lot more of their bikes. Softer seats. Stronger running motors. HD knows their seat ain't comfortable, and the 1st thing yer gonna do is change yer seat, pipes and grips right off the bat.
Why not git off the price of the bike if you can't adress these problems.
HD is marketing genius's but their card's are gonna run out with economy like it is.
HD seems to want you to bring the bike to them to have everything done.
I really like the Fuel injected bikes, but HD has got it messed up trying to do anything to them, anybody that has to pay 500.00 for a Sert and another 350.00 for a custom program on the dyno with the sert. That's not good business for the customer. And they are trying to lock out the after market. HD wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for the after market and what they have brought to the table in better products and designs.
And to try to scare you sometimes by saying doing that will void yer warranty. That in itself gits me pissed. But they know what yer gonna do to yer bike and still try to sell you a extended warranty.
HD could do a lot more to keep the old style but do better upgrades instead of some cheap things.
And fixed some of the problems instead of doing a band aid fix. They got to much worry about their investors instead of the customers.
HD come out with the V-Rod trying to git some of the younger market on their side cause the baby boomers are on their way to a rockin chair.
Just think HD could do a lot better than they are doing making their bikes better and more dependable.

[SK]

I think HD makes more money overall, e.g., markup (margin of profit), on aftermarket products. Why put 100 hp into an engine stock (which they can do), when they can make a ton of money selling you upgrade kits.

And I think cardboard is spot on when they're thinking more about the price of their stock than their customers..unfortunately.

[ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

Wish you'd quit yelling (all caps) Must remember that except for bikes set to go to California, H-D doesn't know where they'll end up, so they have to make all bikes pass the strictest standards in the other States. For example, while some counties in North Carolina don't have emissions testing, others do & H-D doesn't know which county a bike sold @ a N.C. dealer will be registered in. There's no testing in this county, but there is in 2 neighboring counties where 2 dealers are. And the bike may very well end up in another State. N.C. isn't doing bikes yet, but knowing how liberal the legislature is, you can bet there will be. Heck, I've even seen talk about catalytic converter exhaust on lawnmowers.

i'm guilty too art some of us scooter folks have been too busy riding to learn all the puter mumbojumbo ediycut

[HellBoy]

All the jackets, saddlebags, seats, helmets, gloves, pipes and chrome mean less than zero if service sucks. I stopped riding Aprillia's and switched to Harley partly because I was tired of waiting for months while searching for parts. My bike's been in the shop for almost 12 days now and they still can't tell me when the ignition module they ordered will arrive. I will definitely begin a relationship with an indy shop ASAP.