[SPORSTERBOY]

xx

[CD]

Are you speaking about what I think you are? If so, I think it is a shame that when a "felon" does his time, pays his dues, is gainfully employed and a "funtioning" member of society he still cannot vote. While I could see a no vote for a certain level of felon not being able to vote i.e murder, rape, molestation etc. A dude caught in Texas with a bag of pot goes to jail and then gets a job, pays taxes etc, etc, etc.... And we still keep him down and punish him for the rest of his life? I have a friend that was popped for selling pot to his friends in NJ in the 70's and still cannot vote! We somehow expect these people to be "productive" members of society yet continue to punish them for the rest of their lives even if the only thing they might have done is a felony assualt in a bar fight and he may have not even started it.
That's a really, really good way to make a ex-felon feel productive and accepted in society....
JMHO

[FlynDutchman]

I agree with you...should be by the felony commited. But I could swear there was a guy here in Illinois with a felony that ran for mayor of a small suburban town & won....seems odd that he can run for office but not vote in the same election.

[SPORSTERBOY]

thought I deleted all that mess guess you caught a eye before I got rid of it, had one to many and was venting, read it agian and decided I didn't want to make a azz out of myself well at the rate of incarseration and hook'em up charges it won't be long before nobody can vote, guess I'm kinda like your buddy, caught a non violent felony back when I was 18, haven't been in trouble since until my dui, and that's a mistameaner, may as well be a felony the way they punish you. It's all a joke, it's all about money, I can get my rights back if I want to pay, It's pretty bad when you have to pay a fee to be convicted of a crime or pay to stay a day in jail

[WildWindwalker]

I agree people who have payed their time should be allowed to vote. Also I believe they should be able to have Guns, unless the crime they did time for involved firearms. I can bear arms but I have a nephew who had a drug charge, and can't legally use anything other than a bow. That sucks! The second Amendment says Our Right to bare arms shall not be Impeded! Now is that not impeding one's Second Amendment Right? Making a citizen have a permit for concel or Class 3 auto & silenced is also impeding.

The solution is to allow citizens like the Bill of Rights was designed and severly punish lawbreakers. But not make laws that make citizens into criminals.

[wvak47]

As a felon a person has broken the rules of engagement with society. Upon conviction (official labeling) the rules no longer apply to that person. Although bleeding hearts and their lawyers have changed that to some degree, yet they have only done enough to keep real criminals from being treated as they should be, and leaving victims left feeling as justice has failed them. Given our current state of affairs no man walking the street can keep from breaking one of the many laws our legislatures seem to feel it is their duty to write and shove on us.

You can almost take this to a Biblical standing. There once was another great nation of people who was given a pretty simple set of rules, but through their own desire of power they added to those laws until no man could live up to them.

As far as voting, what’s the point? It would be different if we actually had ANYONE that was honestly looking to make a difference. Anyone that had the smallest of clues what this Country really “was” or should be. Anyone that isn’t in the pocket of some special interest group. Anyone but some fool on a power trip. At this point the only good thing about voting is being on the registry to serve for jury duty. Jury Nullification, a term every American should be familiar with and un-apprehensive to use. It is truly the last check and balance left in our hands, with proper application this Country may avoid some VERY hard times to come.

Yet I fall into rant status and it just isn't worth being worked up over anymore.

[FlynDutchman]

Originally Posted by WildWindwalker

I agree people who have payed their time should be allowed to vote. Also I believe they should be able to have Guns, unless the crime they did time for involved firearms. I can bear arms but I have a nephew who had a drug charge, and can't legally use anything other than a bow. That sucks! The second Amendment says Our Right to bare arms shall not be Impeded! Now is that not impeding one's Second Amendment Right? Making a citizen have a permit for concel or Class 3 auto & silenced is also impeding.

The solution is to allow citizens like the Bill of Rights was designed and severly punish lawbreakers. But not make laws that make citizens into criminals.

Yes the constitution does give you certain rights, however those rights are not irrevokable. If you commit a crime, you lose certain rights from the get go. For instance: Freedom. You have the right to free speech all day long but the moment you smack somebody cause you lost your temper, you lose your freedom. Certain other things prevent people from bearing arms: Domestic violence, Mental instability, drug/alcohol addiction, member of a subversive organization & convicted felons. The thing is, a person who commits a felony KNOWS (or should reasonably know) that there are certain repercussions to their actions, loss of certain freedoms are those consequences. Also the Supreme Court has ruled on the right to own a full auto weapon or a silencer & have correctly upheld that ban. The government has a right to regulate certain aspects of weaponry, otherwise you could ride down the street in a tank. Don't get me wrong, I'm no liberal namby pamby, but the Second Amendment doesn't give you the right to be toting an M60 down the street. Sorry.

[CD]

Silencers (suppressors) can be held by private individuals in numerous states. I plan on ordering one from these guys as their rep is good. Ownership Legalities

Why do I want one? Because I shoot my .45, M1 and AR15 often and between hearing loss due to being on a flight line forever and tinnitus I still get ringing in my ears and hearing loss for days even with muffs and plugs. Rapid firing a 30 round mag gets loud. I shot an AR15 with this one on it Gemtech HALO and it had no more bark than a 22LR. Wish I could find one for my M1! I found some muzzle brakes but they only reduce the bark a little.

Been thinking about going to this place to fire some full auto Arizona Tactical Firearms » Machine Gun Safari Would be fun to fire an M16 on rock and roll again. They also have a SAW which I have never shot being that we still used the M60 in our FACP.
Just have to find about 7 friends to share the cost.

Think about it. In an effort to reduce crime, we legislate, legislate and legislate some more trying to control the sales of guns and in some cases ammo and time after time it is a total failure. Liberals get squeamish over death sentences feeling it is inhumane to kill the convict that killed your mother, daughter, son? We let murders walk after only a few years and bitch when they kill again. We are shocked and dismayed that he was out in the first place. I am a strong believer of home defense and it would not cost me anymore lost sleep to take care of business. Been there, done that, got the nightmares to prove it.

The helmet manufacturers were sued until they moved production off shore. I refused to sell helmets until I was provided umbrella insurance by the distributors.
Gun manufacturers have been sued by families because they built the weapon that was used in the crime.
Ruger damn near went bust over one suit.

Did it stop or lower the crime rate? Probably not. No more than suing the helmet manufacturers changed anything in the M/C industry.

The point of my tirade is simply that time and again we have proven that gun control doesn't do much to deter crime. What would cut down on guns being used in crimes? IMHO a well armed, well trained society and a justice system that fries your ass real quick if you murder someone. No life sentences, no parole, CYA!

[hotroadking]

Boy howdy this thread sure went on a 90 degree bender LOL


CD buddy just bought a Barrett Rec7, he's ordered the scope and silencer as you stated they will hurt your ears over time.

It's one heckofa weapon....

[SPORSTERBOY]

well you just can't go on assuming that people know laws because I'm sure your 18 year old's really don't realize the meaning or even know. I'm still learning the repurcutions of this dui, believe me if I knew what I know now, this wouldn't have hapend, what really chaps my hide is the fact that only when you get caught breaking the law your a alcoholic, I had to go do a evaluation to see if I was a drunk, I told them to go f there selves with there contridictions and bull s. drinking is so bad then why is it legal. your all good until you decide to drink and drive, then you become a hardend alcoholic and criminal. then no matter how long you've been good they always want to bring up your past, even the stuff that got dismissisd, funny how they drop the charges for something and it still sits on your record for them to use agenst you anyway

[FLHTbiker]

CD put it so well that I can't think of anything to add. However, if someone did drugs got clean and then goes out and does it again, well sorry, to me your done. I know of a lot of guys that did drugs when they were young, didn't get caught don't do drugs now and are good citizens with all the privileges of full citizenship. Didn't Clinton admit to doing POT!

[WildWindwalker]

People who think a Right that is revokable are wrong,that simply makes it a privaledge, and not a right. I can see limiting the carrying, like not at or around schools,banks,Government buildings and airports. But to lose your right to bear arms or vote would be like loseing your citizenship, maybe they should no longer have to pay taxes or maybe only 80% of what they normally would.

I am glad I got a response out of you usually people agree with me, so I don't get a different perspective. However gun control and gun grabbers have got out of control.

I am glad the Supreme Justices were wise and ruled in favor of D.C.'s Right to bear arms.

[SPORSTERBOY]

funny thing is you still pay your taxes, not like I don't get screwed on that one to, may as well be called your federal income tax bill, they all interpret your rights now as a privilege, you don't even have to do driving ofenses anymore to loose your lic, that's prob the most common thing they want to grab from you. but not much I can do except vent, and point fingers, wasn't my vote somebody must like these laws.

[wvak47]

Sportsterboy I don't think anyone likes them. I think really it is a few classes of people. Some are just lazy and won't put the time in to learn them until they get their rear in the sling (if then). Next you have the obviously weak that wants the Gov to "protect us" from bad people. Talk about asking the fox to guard the hen house. You have professional criminals who must learn the laws to know how to navigate the waters (these jokers are on both sides of the "thin blue line"). Then there are those that learn the laws but don't have the know how or fortitude to do anything about it. My last group are those that know the law have the brass and does something about it and become labeled "un-patriotic" or more dangerous "domestic terrorist". Some of these people actually lash out and unfortunately "innocent people" get hurt and killed. Somehow the ones causing the grief seem to always escape it's wrath.

[FlynDutchman]

[quote=WildWindwalker;43615]People who think a Right that is revokable are wrong,that simply makes it a privaledge, and not a right. QUOTE]


Your rights aren't without limitations, it all depends on one thing...YOU. If you screw up you lose those rights. Just like its always been said: you have the right to free speech, however you do not have the right to yell FIRE ! in a crowded theatre. I get what you are saying though...certain things like a drivers license is a privilege, not a right.