[Big Ben]

I can't pretend to be an expert on this, but this guy at a cool blog called the Ergosphere had a post up this week about this subject. He says that even if we use all the available biomass it won't be enough, and we need to move to new technologies that aren't about burning stuff. It's an interesting article and I learned a lot reading it, but he may be wrong. I just don't know enough about the subject to judge. Maybe ethanol will do some of what we need it to do in the short term. I do think most of the current ethanol programs are more about pork and subsidies for corn states than about the environment though.

I definitely agree with Goose that it would be nice to reach the point where we didn't care what happens to middle eastern oil. It would mean a lot fewer American soldiers dying, and a lot less money available for terrorists.

[Goose]

Well, what I need to do is some research on the subject, I guess. You can sit there and say, no, we don't have enough biomass, or yes we do have enough biomass, but has anyone actually THOUGHT about it? We all just go on what we've read, but there is research on going on E85. I think it'd be a good thing for farmers, of course, but I'd like to see the farmers get the profits and not OPEC, keep the money at home.

Seems to me, though, that if Brazil can utilize just sugar cane to make 'em energy independent, we can figure a way. We don't have to totally eliminate gasoline to do this, just eliminate that which is imported. We still produce 40 or 50 percent of our oil needs right here. ANWAR could make that 75 percent. I think, though, with a few tax incentives and the obvious profits to be made, now that E85 is economical to use, it's just a matter of time. They already have pumps in the Houston area, not many, but a few.

I know of quite a few rice fields that have been put to pasture around here due to the poor price for rice. Well, sugar cane used to be a big crop on the Texas coast. Sugar Land, SW of Houston, had a sugar refinery to utilize the resource. Not much cane around here anymore, but that could change, and instead of sugar producers, we can build ethanol plants to utilize it.

[Goose]

http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/Farre...ence012706.pdf

Their conclusion is ethanol production returns 1.6 units of energy for every unit used in production, much better than gasoline (if I understood it correctly) and that in order to fullfill transportation energy needs, some advances in production methods will have to occur and cellulose conversion will have to be used to suppliment starch/sugar sources, but that it can be done. Don't try to read the whole thing, last paragraph is all you need. LOL!

[Big Ben]

Lots of good info there Goose. Thanks.

I still wonder whether the money spent on developing ethanol technologies wouldn't be better spent on developing alternative energy sources and electric vehicles, but it's nice to have more information about the potential for ethanol.

[Goose]

I think, far as cars go, a plugable hybrid that's also flex fuel would be the ultimate in my mind. My wife runs around town a lot, small town, and keepin' the car plugged in would keep the motor from ever being used except on trips to Victoria (about 30 miles away) or long trips. If it could burn E85, I'm thinkin' best possible solution for us. Not everyone is in our position. Some folks drive/commute quite a distance. I know a guy in town, lives and commutes from 100 miles from here. He drives a diesel VW and gets 50 to the gallon, or so, says he don't wanna move. Whatever hangs his hooter, but everything's going up and 50 to the gallon, while good, would still be better with a shorter commute.

E85 would also be usable on bikes, though, and I don't wanna have to give up riding or buy the new Harley Electric Glide... So much for the rumble, eh? Back to playing cards in the spokes. Internal combustion engines can also burn hydrogen, but I think that's a long way off just due to the problems with infrastructure.

[isajef]

I don't know how the taxes work in the US but in Quebec, Canada 75% of the gas costs are taxes and we can refine our own crude oil so I realy dont understand the insane prices. It's the same with our hydro power (Hudson Bay James) we sell power to the US and we pay more for our hydro power than what we sell it for to our American neighbors? The whole world is ****ed up! To register and plate my bike next year will cost $1200.00 for one season thats right $1200.00 for 6 months of riding go figure.

PARTS

[Goose]

To register and plate my bike next year will cost $1200.00 for one season

How in the WORLD do they justify that? Is it more for cars? How does anyone afford to dive up there, if so???? My God, my property taxes ain't even CLOSE to that high and I gripe about 'em! I register 2 bikes, two four wheelers, and a trailer every year. YIKES, glad they ain't registered in Canada! Costs me about 220 bucks for all of 'em. That would be, what, about $300+ Canadian? Is this what happens when you get a national socialized health care system?

[isajef]

Hey Goose,

Health care is good but you pay for what you get, they are trying to shut down hospitals, the doctors are under paid, emergency room wait is anywhere between 4 to 8 hour wait to see a doctor, the hospitals are no where near as nice as the US one's. House taxes $3500 a year plus insurance car registration is $350 a year with $1000 a year insurance times this by 2 for me and my wife and then you have the hog, they charge us $250 every 2 years to renew our drivers liscence, now they want to charge us $250 for driving a car and another $250 for driving our scoots so that would be $500 every 2 years just to hold our drivers liscence.

PARTS

[scooter]

you ever hear that story about a little colony that was getting taxed without representation, on or about the 1770's?

Maybe it's time y'all got some grassroots campaigns together. There IS actually a point in time at which the taxation outweighs the profit in a capitalistic society. Then you got problems, son, real problems.

scoot

[DeathWind]

All the gasoline talk makes me wonder.....Since Harley is caving in to the EPA, I wonder how long before they are forced to develop a hybrid or an ignition system that shuts one cylinder down when you shift into 7th or 8th gear.

Yamaha Gen-RYU

Alternative Fuel Hybrid

E-Cycle 80mph, 180mpg Diesel

[chucktx]

the black one looks like ness had a hand in it............

[DeathWind]

That it does. I would own/ride that in a heart-beat just for the wow factor. The helmet is an integral part of the motorcycle.

"Based on the Yamaha Genesis, this aluminium Gen-Ryu adopts the HMI (Human Machine Interface) system that works with a special helmet designed for this system, and Yamaha's ASV (Advanced Safety Vehicule) that provides visual and vocal information about the environment and possible dangers to the driver. This gives the pilot the freedom to focus only on his/her driving.
You understand that the Gen-Ryu will be nothing without the helmet because several systems are grouped in it. A system has been designed that provides a better visibility while cornering and on intersections at night. The wind noise has been studied and reduced too, and a wireless intercom (based on very short waves), an (audible) navigation system and MP3 player with telephony function complete the package."

Here is a better link with a lot of photos: Yamaha Gen-RYU

After looking at the photos, I don't think anyone should have a problem seeing you on the road.

[Sleepy]

Originally Posted by Goose

How in the WORLD do they justify that? Is it more for cars? How does anyone afford to dive up there, if so???? My God, my property taxes ain't even CLOSE to that high and I gripe about 'em! I register 2 bikes, two four wheelers, and a trailer every year. YIKES, glad they ain't registered in Canada! Costs me about 220 bucks for all of 'em. That would be, what, about $300+ Canadian? Is this what happens when you get a national socialized health care system?

I was talking to someone from Arizona who was doing volunteer work at the Booth Fish Hatchery in Spearfish and between him and his wife they were spending upwards of $500.00 a month on a health care plan so while he's probably getting a smoking deal on car insurance, heath insurance is a little more. I remember years ago there was quite a descrepancy in taxation rates in municipalities in the greater Montreal area. A friend of mine lived in Pointe-Claire, right next to a hospital and his taxes were less than my place in Calgary..around $1500.00 at the time..another friend lived in a similar sized home in Kirkland and his taxes were $3500.00. The difference was that Pointe-Claire had more industry to support the tax base. I've kind of lost touch with what's going on in Quebec after moving out west but I believe that Montreal was looking at annexing[?] all the surrounding municipalities to become a mega centre..this would probably impact tax assessments. I'm not sure how the annexation worked out.
I know my insurance tab for 4 bikes, house, car etc is over $300.00 per month..gasoline is $1.15 per litre ..there are 3.8 litres in a US gallon .the rough conversion on the exchange rate is is 89 cents so in your dollars we're at $4.00 per US gallon in US dollars. I just got back from a 5000 mile trip in the US and comparatively speaking, gas is cheap in the US..I still think we're getting hosed but you guys less so. I can control the amount of fossil fuels I burn..what I can't control as well is the cost of meds that I may need so I like the system I'm in

[chucktx]

Originally Posted by chucktx

the black one looks like ness had a hand in it............

i looked around on the site........i wonder what the purpose of the front wings are for?? one pic shows closed, other open....and gizmos underneath.....wild machine at the least!!!!!
chuck

[Killer-B]

Forced is truly a harsh term, the first thing I think of
“being forced to do anything, is to rebel.
But that’s just me.

[GreyBear]

I have been doing a bit of thinking and researching and came up with some questions...the kind that we won't get any answers to but maybe in 10 years we might see something in retrospect.
If you are old enough you remember when the started taking the lead out of gas. New vehicles were required to use the unleaded stuff. So it pretty soon made older cars and scoots obsolete. Sure you could have a lot of work done and run the unleaded stuff but for the most part it was easier to just upgrade. Now ethanol is sort of the same deal. Have to have special mods to run the stuff....curious. Will we all ahve to be running eth in 10 years? Sure would be a lot of new vehicles sold and that with sales down a lot now. And it would be an end run around the law that would have made anything over 10 years old either crusher material or antiques that could only be driven on a very limited basis....That was proposed a few years back and shot down...we will see.

Ride Free

[hotroadking]

Interesting observation, Red, nothing like a reformed Liberal LOL sounds just like a reformed smoker.

While I'm all for profits, many Americans believe more is going on than meets the eye when a company that normally turns 5 to 7% net profit starts turning 30% profit on the same product.

It's natural and healthy to question where that additional profit is coming from. Did it come from pushing prices up at the pump or is it something else? It's not that they can't earn it, or that they are not entitled to be profitable, but how can they triple the bottom line without something significant happening. As consumers we see the price on the pump and nothing else so naturally profits and price are equated.

As to refineries the reason you don't see more isn't just because of Tree Huggers or expense, federal regulations, all of that can be overcome with donations and effort.

It's simple economics, if demand for the product you produce is flat, (as it has for the past 3 years in the USA) increasing the supply is not something a smart business will facilitate. Doing that would lower prices and if demand doesn’t rise by some similar amount you loose money by increasing supply. So they are not going to build a refinery because it will reduce profitability.

Oil is going up not simply because we have SUV's, or China buying cars, or Exxon/Mobil execs padding their pockets.
It's going up because we have a war going on, a nut in Iran, Hezbollah and Israel and BP's utter mismanagement of the pipeline (For which they should be fined heavily for each day the line is out commission). It’s going up because we “could” have a shortfall in availability of raw crude.

It’s going up because the speculators are driving futures up at a rapid pace betting on a short supply due to war. They are at the world craps table rolling big dollars for oil and driving up the prices because there is a potentially large shortage. If Iran stops production and Iraq has problems now combined with BP we have the potential to run short on our daily needs.

So they have bet big and are winning big. Exxon, BP all of them are in that half of the game, they do contribute to the prices to some extent on Crude as they are buyers at that level, and they sell it to themselves in the refinery division, that sells the product to others.

It is Capitalism at work only it's taking advantage of a worldwide situation and used it to raise prices in the US to meet world prices for gas that have existed elsewhere.

[GreyBear]

We live in a capitalist society. We also are widening the gap between the haves and have nots. Regardless of what anyone says about we buy it because we can.....that is only half the situation. Many buy it because they have no other choice. Pay what they ask for fuel or stay home and don't work. We as a country have no mass transit system. My wife drives 80 miles a day back and forth to the hospital...and when she's on call that is sometimes twice or three times the milage. There are no buses, no trains...and riding a bicycle 80 miles a day in the mountains is for extreme athletes not Surgery nurses. The profits the oil companys have made are staggering and yes they SHOULD be mandated to return some for the public good. As to the poor mouthing of how bad it was in the old days for the oil companies....that's a real hard sell. Companies that do really bad financially wind up non existent. As to what to do: there ain't no easy or instant fix. Part of it would be to back off some on the small producers and let them slide as much as the big boys. Part of it would be to levy an emergency tax on the oil companies and use that money to get our own oil network up to speed. But that won't bring down prices as American workers won't work for the pay they do in the Middle Eastern countries...they can't. Cost of living etc. There are measures that could be taken but they won't be. As I said before the gulf between the haves and have nots is widening and that my friends is not a good thing for any country. We already have a lot of explosive and devisive issues here. Immigration just for one. A lot of immigrants, both legal and illegal are from countries where the last revolution wasn't over a hundred and forty years ago. Che Guevarro said: "Full bellies make for lousy revolutionaries" He was correct. But as things go up the buying power of the poor and the middle class goes down. Yes they haven't stopped buying gas or games boys....but the average credit card debt is astronomical. They ain't paying cash, they are robbing Peter to pay Paul and that always eventually bites you in the a**, same way as deficit spending does a country.
Despite all the gun grabbers ploys this is still a heavily armed country....and hungry pissed off peasants with guns is not a good thing for the powers that be. Am I saying that revolution is coming? Perhaps. The conditions are getting closer and closer to ripe and just like a wild fire all it takes then is a spark... personally I tend to plan for the worst and pray for the best.

As to the ownership of the Bush family by oil....yeah he was and is and will be so no use crying about that. I helped to put him in office both times.....but I never voted FOR him. In fact I can't really recall voting For anyone for president since I could vote. Just once I would like to do that instead of having to pick the lesser of two evils.

[chucktx]

"As to the ownership of the Bush family by oil....yeah he was and is and will be so no use crying about that. I helped to put him in office both times.....but I never voted FOR him. In fact I can't really recall voting For anyone for president since I could vote. Just once I would like to do that instead of having to pick the lesser of two evils."

oh so true......
chuck