[voodoo1]

35% of the Muslim population (in America)lives in dearborn Michigan.
The liberal press did almost a complete blackout of the Pro-Hizbulah
parade/gathering in/around Dearborn. They said 10,000 people gathered..Hmmmmm not only did this barley make the News....(Glen Beck talked about it on the RADIO) what you did not see/hear about was anyone saying anything differently.
I am far from "racial" but this is a religious war just was well and we are the enemy there as well. America is a melting pot..not supposed to be open to every lunatic simply because they should be entitled to their views..come on this is flat out anti-everything..this is not a flag burning wanna be hippie, this is people celebrating terrorist activity openly in our BACK YARD!!!!!

Religion, whether you face EAst five times a day or not is not about killing.If it is, it is every man woman and child and I think that is the position of "our terrorists" They want our way of life gone.You cannot reason with that..you have to either get it on or be gone!!! I really do not wanna see anyone of our children over there dealing with the events going on. However if it the "terrorists" don't get the message it'll be alot worse. Live and let live has not worked there for thousnads of years.

[CD]

The authorities here are searching for two "middle eastern appearing" men that attempted to purchase an unusual amount of cell phones from a local Sam's club here. Their policy is no more than five per customer and it was "far more" than that.

[voodoo1]

just yesterday with over 1,000 cell phones..and pictures of the Mac-n-Nac bridge. A rather long bridge that is used aboundantly in Michigan. One of the wifes of the caught alleged bad guys stated her husband was "profiled".
Duh!!!??

[GreyBear]

Yeah ya did, yahoo had some pics yesterday but i couldn't find them today and it was also on CNN. Of course a lot of that may be my skills with a computer....

[GreyBear]

Ya know it seems that no one anymore can use any common sense. Sure profiling is wrong...in some cases. If you see three white guys and one black walking down the street at 0200 and just jack up the black guy...that is wrong. But if you have a dispatch that give the discription for a robbery suspect as male black early 20's 5' 10 165 lbs in a sweat shirt and ball cap...stopping a young black guy in a sweatshirt and ballcap instead of a 250 lb 50 yr old latino is just good police work. Same here.
As to the religous war stuff....well it's been happening for centuries. Remember the Spanish Armada vs the Ottoman navy? Personally I just don't need to feel God is on my side in order to take care of business. When a rabid dog shows up I don't really give a crap if it's a Catholic dog, a Baptist dog a Moslem dog or an aethiest dog...I just wanna make sure the mutt is put out of it's misery before he does any harm. We won't get into the whole why we back Israel thing or the like. Most people feel we should. And they have a real powerful lobby. But no one can deny it has cost us a lot of brownie points in other parts of the world. As to the folks in Michigan... if they have broken the law..prosecute them. If not, well it's just as much thier right to voice an opinion as it is yours to disagree with it. The alternative is to make this a country where we have given up our freedoms so we can feel safe. And if that happens THEY WIN. We may never lose another single life to terrorists but they will have won. These people that wanna chuck the constitution so we can all be safe and secure scare me more than all of the terrorists in the universe. For as a great man once said: "Those that would trade freedom for security soon find they have neither".

RIDE FREE!!!!!!! it's not just a catchy phrase.........

[Big Ben]

Well said Greybear.

These are just small thumbnails, but here's some pictures of people pouring stuff together into huge garbage cans in the middle of a crowded airport. That looks dangerous even if there are no terrorists around. I'd want a gasmask just for the smell from all the perfume and shampoo poured out.

[FLHTbiker]

They are not just a 1%. They are nations and armies that are wanting the U.S. and Israel gone. I simply don't understand why any American would still think that they can be reasoned with. We should round them up until we know who is safe.
Food for thought:
Why can't the Adabs and others in the middle east let Israel alone and just accept that they are part of the world.
Why do the Arabs call us fascist and evil?
Why are the Arab Leagues of college for Arab students in this country allowed to let in terrorist to promote and recruit young Arabs into their groups?
I think that if some of these trouble making Arabs don't stop there will be a world war and I believe nuclear weapons will be used.
The ones who promoted the terrorist in the streets of America should all be immediately deported.

[GreyBear]

Just to play Devils advocate for a moment. You ask "Why can't the Arabs and others in the middle east leave Israel alone and accept they are part of the world?"

Sounds resonable, doesn't it. But go to Miami and talk to Cubans and see if they want to take over the country from the communists and go home. While the younger folks may not the older ones sure would.

And how would we feel if say the gays decided they wanted thier own country in the US? And the rest of the world agreed and suddenly Texas and Oklahoma were not Texas and Oklahoma and part of the US, but was the Twinkly Country of Fairyland? So now I have to get a passport to visit where part of my family is buried. To go from New Orleans to Tuscon I have to either go way the hell out of the way or do the visa passport thing through Fairyland. And suppose when I do get the visa and make the trip I get crapped on cause I am straight. I really doubt that I am gonna have a "oh well, live and let live" attitude towards Fairyland and it's citizens. Would you? And what if you were forced to uproot and move to Kansas or New York?

Yes, that is an over simplification but one based in reality. The nation of Israel was created by taking land away from others. (And please don't tell me it was origianlly thiers according to Biblical history, if that's a case for ownership, the native americans would be telling us to vacate.) And taking land away from people causes hard feelings.

As to why they call us fascists and evil? (Which by the way is interesting since most Arab countries actively supported the Axis during WWII) A great deal of it has to do with our foreign policies. Who we have backed and supported. It seems that while we now seek to establish "democracy" ( we won't even get into the fact that the US was not set up as a democracy but as a republic) we spent decades supporting some of the worst dictators in the world. And when you support a leader that treats his own people like crap they blame you as well. Add to that the fact that we openly support much of what thier religion forbids. Hell even people like Jerry Falwell say we have become like Sodom and Ghemorah, little wonder a religion that forbids seeing a womans ankle think we are immoral and evil.

As to the reason terrorist infiltrate colleges to recruit? Ask your politicians. Perhaps instead of spending millions of dollars to determine that the Bee festival could be a terrorist target they might spend the money where it would do some good. And since I am on that, if the people at Homeland security steal, er excuse me, allegedly misuse, funds that are earmarekd to make us safe for things like cruises and fancy dinners, shouldn't they be tried as collaborating with terrorists?

As to another world war...probably so. Will it come from the middle east? Maybe. Will it be nuclear? Most assuredly. No matter what, when someone starts to lose they pull out the stops. Can we control it? Really good question. Can we shut down our country and lose our freedoms and turn the middle east into a glass covered parking lot? Sure we can....but do we really want to? Because, when the crap hits the fan it isnt going to be about winning. It is going to be about surviving. Just say that the scientists are as wrong about radiation poisoning and fall out and nuclear winter as they were about Y2K. It is still going to be messy beyond belief. Once we use our nukes on the Arabs we are standing there with an unloaded gun. So we now don't have a nuclear arsenal...wonder if that would interest say China? Or our new "friends" the Russians? I know that north Korea would just love it.

As to rounding people up and putting them in camps: sure let's do it. We can jail the Arabs, and while we are at it the Mexicans, that would free up some jobs, at least the illegals. And who else? Gays? Jews? Papists? Hell we could create an all white, christian, utopia. And we could wear cool uniforms and have some neat torch light marches......no thanks amigo.
As I have said if someone, ANYONE, is breaking a law, prosecute them. If not, saying the unpopular, isn't a crime. If the Irish population in the US had not supported the IRA....they would have withered long before they did. One thing we could do: is take care of the US and stop playing policeman and Mr. Fixit to the rest of the world, especially since they don't appreciate it anyway.
Stop sending money and bombers and everything else to everyone. Use that money to make sure old folks here don't have to choose between buying thier medicine and eating........

Ride Free..............

[FLHTbiker]

Greybeard come on, the Jews were there before the Romans took them over. They reclaimed what was taken away from them from before. They did not all of a sudden decide hay we want a country where can we go. After the Holocaust in WWII they decided to go home.

As far as rounding up they Arabs, well we better start. Those 10,000 or so who showed support for the Terrorist during the war in Lebanon are in my mind and should be in every ones mind terrorist supporters and potential terrorist themselves.

We better pay attention in this country and quit pus%y footing around with them. God god man look at what happened in Britain, 2nd and 3rd generation born in Britain Islamic dudes decide they are going to blow up airplanes because some religious jerk said to do it.

We all better wake up, how many times must we go through this before people start to realize that there here in this country and they mean to hit us again.

These terrorist are taking are freedoms away. Just go to the airport and see how many freedoms you have lost.

[GreyBear]

OK once so Israel had the land before the Romans. England. France and Spain had North America before we had a country and they took it from the native Americans. So if the Apaches wanna "reclaim" part of the Southwest is it OK? Should we support them in doing so? And at one time what was is England was owned by the Romans so do they need to hand it back and learn Italian? I don't think so, But if that is the case then I guess that the illegal aliens from Mexico in Texas and Arizona and California aren't ilegals at all. They are just the ones that used to own the place coming home.......

As to waking up and doing something...Hell yeah but doing something to take care of the problem not giving in to another knee jerk reaction like the patriot act.


Ride Free......while you can

[hotroadking]

Funny, I'm part cave man, and I think we rulled the world before everyone so you all need to get the heck off my planet!

[CD]

Many of you are taking the "wait and see" stance or the "what me worry?" attitude. What I cannot understand is the lack of appreciation of what is building up. Do you think the foiled mass murder plot was the only thing brewing? Do you think that the Al Qaeda has stopped trying to build a dirty nuke? We all know that small nuclear weapons can be successfully produced yet do we want to simply ignore the threat? Has the Anthrax or other bio agent threat disappeared? Do we now not wonder how many cells could be operating in the US? Don't mass purchases of cell phones not catch your eye? Do you ever wonder if it is still possible to hijack an aircraft and slam it into a building? Do you ever wonder how much damage a small twin engine aircraft fully loaded with fuel could do to a major shopping mall? Did you forget Timothy McVeigh? He was sentenced for creating a WMD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh (oops there's that acronym again) and killing 168 people. The bomb is a simple device to make and, if enough is used it can bring a large building down. If you have ever watched the Discovery channel or gone to an open pit copper mine...you may have seen a ANFO device at work.

Do you ever stop and think about the fact that these folks are running all of these scenarios and more constantly?

Are you willing to do what it takes to stop the threat or just roll the dice and hope for the best?

BB said:
"What has happened to Americans that we've become such cringing babies scared to death of a few unshaven guys hiding in caves? An American citizen has a far higher chance of getting hit by lightning than getting killed by terrorists. Maybe we should nuke the clouds? Our country is strong, and we can handle this without overreacting."

Overreacting? What if a victim was a relative or a friend? What percentage of the population has to be killed, maimed, crippled or mentally scarred before we hit the magic number?

The death toll from 9/11 at the WTC was 2,752 and at the Pentagon another 125 lives were lost. 2,877 deaths...all from a single attack. If all ten of the aircraft were brought down and you used an average of 300 per a/c that's another 3,000 raising the total to 5,877 or higher.

Pearl Harbor cost almost 3,000 lives and brought about our entry into WWII against the Japanese. That generation knew what it would cost to be free and many gave their full measure and the nation never wavered.

What will it take to get our attention as a nation? The NYSE blown up? That would get the wealthy Pissed Off for sure. How about some tankers sunk so we truly have a fuel shortage? That ought tick a few more off.

Maybe it will take the loss of loved ones over and over again until parents, fathers, wives, children and friends all get so tired of it they decide to take action. Maybe then we will develop the resolve to defeat terrorism regardless of the cost to the enemy.

We cannot afford to do the Ostrich. We cannot turn the other cheek and we cannot afford to whine, bitch and moan about profiling.... some of us should be used to it in our lives as bearded, dirty, bikers..... We also know that sometimes it is a necessary evil. Which brings to mind the nearly total silence from the ACLU and ADC lately...

BB, ain't gonna like this but, WTF it's my house just kidding BB. We need to stop and think about some basics. Let's back trace a moment. Of the 5,000+ that marched here to support illegal alien rights, how many were illegals themselves? Of the 10,000 that supported Hezbollah, how many were illegal aliens? How many were active terrorists? We could have and perhaps should have checked the id's of everyone of them. You have the right to peacefully assemble...but if part of that is advocating terrorist acts or supporting a terrorist faction, it is not a peaceful assembly IMHO.
Freedom is not, never has been and never will be free. There is a cost involved and to think otherwise is naive.

We obviously cannot randomly kill innocent civilians but as I have said before, we need to hit harder than they do every time. We need to recruit operatives that can bust the cells open and, they just disappear with no fanfare. We need to take care of business, quietly and keep the freaking liberal press out of it.

I haven't even posted this yet and can almost hear the "ever heard of the Gestapo or SS before" questions....

Oh well, I can buy Korean era surplus 30.06 by the can full really cheap. M1 clips are in abundance and .223 surplus can even be had in tracer! Get the Bow Marc, we might have to go huntin'

[bikerjim1]

I'll be right next to ya when the sh*t hits C.D. Lock & load!!
It just seems like some folks with opinions haven't had enough tragedy bestow their eyes to wake up and see that this is a challenge....for our freedom!
Take the stance of hiding your head to wait for it to end......take a chance of getting yer a** blown off.

[Red Rider]

Dang, this thread sure has taken off in wide directions...

OK, one thing is clear - this would all be best discussed after a good summer ride with lots of cold adult beverages, on an open deck where us cigar lovers could abuse ourselves. I can't expect anyone to see the world through my eyes without my experiences and knowledge - but I'd sure be happier if ya'll could! And I can't tell ya many stories (gotta keep to the oath, and there is no expiration date on most of my secrets). But there are a few humdinger stories I could tell that I know would give ya more perspective.

GreyBear - thanks for the well wishing. But the docs now want even more tests, more x-rays & MRI's. Next decision day is the 28th. Meanwhile, even typing is painful. But thank the Lord that riding ain't!

I'd really rather chat on bikes now. Got enough left-wing bias from my San Francisco relatives who've never been outside of the city & county of. And bike chat ain't so much typing!

Keep shiny!

[GreyBear]

<quote: CD Said: We obviously cannot randomly kill innocent civilians but as I have said before, we need to hit harder than they do every time. We need to recruit operatives that can bust the cells open and, they just disappear with no fanfare. We need to take care of business, quietly and keep the freaking liberal press out of it. Quote>


Ok now this is what I am talking about. Making the BAD guys disapear and making it very un inviting to step up to take thier place. Back when airline hijacking was the thing G-9 had a policy. No negotiations, no publicity, total black out and in one hour we come in and we take no prisoners. That sort of stance works. And it is above all doable. But instead the politicains want to make headlines. Being loved is great, Being feared is better, but as it stands now we are being paper tigers, and being laughed at is never a deterant.
I am in no way advocating an ostrich approach, but I don't want to see another fiasco like the patriot act either. We have a complete underground society within a society that stays below the radar because the powers that be don't deal with them. And most of what has been done is like what they have done with gun control, it only applies to those that are within the system. We keep spending money on BS instead of doing something constructive. Give the SEALS and DELTA all double 00 numbers and turn them loose. Make it policy that if your visa is expired you are shipped out, do not collect go or $200.00. If you are involved in a demonstration supporting someone like Hezbolah, check ID's and take pictures and if they don't have papers arrest them. If the crowd turns nasty forget political correctness and treat it like a riot. It was done in the 60's with our own college students, why is it so hard to do now. The right of PEACEFUL assembly goes out the window when it becomes something other than peaceful. The laws are there, they simply need to be enforced. But we have become more interested in passing new laws that sound good than enforcing what is on the books. Domestic violence laws are BS same as hate crime laws. It doesn't make any difference if a person is straight or gay, black white or purple, male or female...you smack them it's asault, you kill them it's homicide. But instead of prosecuting the offenders the politicians go vote hunting and pass some new law.

You are totally correct we either fight them on their turf or have to fight them on ours. But we have to not just be tougher we have to be smarter. And we have to demand that our leaders stop profiling and git er done!

Ride Free.......

[Big Ben]

CD,
Has anyone here been advocating waiting or doing nothing? Not me. I've been advocating better intelligence and better law enforcement, because the latest bust shows it works. Did you know we wouldn't have caught the plot if the Brits hadn't been engaging in diplomacy with Pakistan? Yup, we caught them because of a tip we got by negotiating with a country that harbors terrorists, the sort of thing the Bush administration scoffs at as being unserious. And now we don't have anywhere near enough Arabic and Farsi translators in military intelligence because half of them were fired for being gay. You call that being serious about the problem? But you won't consider me serious about the problem until I advocate blowing stuff up and hoping we hit something important.

Al Qaeda has been actively trying to kill Americans since the late '80s, and failing. They got lucky once, on 9/11, and they've failed everything they've tried since. They just don't have the power to seriously hurt us, and yet people are shaking in their boots and giving up their freedoms, whining "please don't let them hurt me!" Every once in a while they may get lucky again and manage to kill a few hundred or even a few thousand Americans, but they will never be a true threat to our existence as a nation unless we let fear of them rule us. We lose more than ten times that number to automobile accidents and go about our business, because we're a strong nation.

No matter how many wars we start, terrorism will never go away completely, and misguided wars like Iraq make it worse. If we took even one tenth of the money we wasted on the Iraq war and used it to focus on intelligence and prevention of terrorism, we'd be a lot safer. If we give up our civil liberties because we're so scared of getting a bloody nose, we're conceding defeat to fear of a bunch of low-life religious fanatics. We should have more pride in our country than that.


Red Rider,

OK, one thing is clear - this would all be best discussed after a good summer ride with lots of cold adult beverages, on an open deck where us cigar lovers could abuse ourselves.

Looks like there are some things we agree about 100%

[Red Rider]

Oh here I go again - we DO work with Pakistan. Hell, I was IN Pakistan, and the Paki's saved my azz there in a situation that took some big courage on their part in a story I can't tell now. We actually work as much or more with them than the Brits do, as there are still some hard feelings held from the former colony of the UK.

By the way, you CAN be a homosexual CIA or NSA linguist. Just not a military one. I wouldn't care if you could be a military one, but since that ain't the policy then DON"T join! Grrr.....

Heck with it...no more.....off for a drink and a smoke!

[Killer-B]

Jihad

Just kidding.

I use to love these opinionated political global debates, but, it is not good for my blood pressure. So I’ll sit this one out.

One thing I thought funny and true is Red Rider’s,,,
>>“Got enough left-wing bias from my San Francisco relatives who've never been outside of the city & county of. “ <<

This is SO true. I’m not going to question any ones credentials as to where and what they have done. I don’t care. I know that I have done a few laps around this globe, been through a few debriefings for the top secret and secret clearances I’ve held. (I’m NOT bragging).
In my opinion, unless you have been out and about, seen how the other cultures live and think, good & bad, well then, your depending on liberal media, tabloid and newspaper sensationalism for your knowledge.
A big thumbs-up for the armchair political experts.

YES, we need to be very vigilant in our world as we know it, or we may not be around to debate its faults…

Just my 2 ½ cents…

[voodoo1]

If ya think we are gonna run out of Nukes as I read earlier in one of these posts..that was my job for years in the service..we won't. Shoot I am worried the next time the electricity goes out and some nut thinks it is the end of the world and wants to ran-sack our home...that is why I have my own homeland security. It ain't WACO and I am not wacko but I won't run out either. Turning the other cheek??? simply so they can kiss my AS##!!LOL... I think alot of the European snobs would like to see us get humped as well.,but here at home?? in our own country this ain't gays wanting to get married or Mel Gibson blurting out something in a drunken stupor this is Terroist/radical behavior trying to end our way of life.....
Searching a 73 old American war vet at the airport just so we don't hurt anyone's feelings? please...Profile..we all do it..it is simple..say what ya want we all do it...No one said hey just go ahead and run through my house with no reasonable cause..heck... FEDS can do it anytime anyways, what are ya gonna do? This ain't no put the lepers on the island.. So save the what if they were gay...blah blah They wanna kill us all, gay, white, black or otherwise. So stop comparing it to that.
Hitler tried it and he was bad...we took care of that...they want us dead and we are supposed to try to understand that? come on....dead is dead....
No one so far has said kill all Muslims...by no means..but profiling, wiping out Hizbulah..sure go for it..If am walking down the street and a cop stops me (again)because I fit a description of whom they might be looking for...,did I get offended? NO...I understood...told me have a good day.Afterwards I talked some smack..LOL..but hey he was doing his job.....but I understood.
Now if they stop me over and over..ok..I might have something..unless I am doing something wrong.
Politics is just that... politics..war,big guns and an overwhelming ability to keep your enemy at beigh is it. Sorry that has always been it. War is hell but Fredom is not Free/ Get it in your system or keep hiding your head in the sand and let some one do the dirty work for ya and maybe you'll live longer.
Just don't get in the way.

[Big Ben]

Red Rider,
I know we work with Pakistan--they were a necessary part of Afghanistan operations. I was responding to the standard Republican talking point that mocks calls for more diplomacy and negotiation as fundamentally unserious. Often calls for such diplomacy are even labeled "appeasement". Well, that unseriousness, that "appeasement", just saved a lot of British and American lives.

If you want to say that gays shouldn't try to serve their country in a time of need, you have the right to that opinion. But anyone who fires a military intelligence linguist for being gay when we have a serious shortage is not someone who can claim to be serious about fighting terror. Enforcing out-of-date bigoted regulations is not worth jeopardizing important intelligence work.