[DeathWind]

Yamaha Stratoliner/Roadliner 113 (1851cc)
Kawasaki Vulcan 125 (2053cc)
Suzuki M109R 109 (1783cc)
Big Dog 117 (1916cc)
Am. Ironhorse 111 (1819cc)
Honda VTX1800 109 (1795cc)
Victory 100 (1638cc)

Harley 96 (1573)

I participate in three forums and alway see talk of Harley leaning out the fuel to meet EPA regs. I'm not buying it. How can the above seven manufacturers have larger more powerful motors than Harley? The way I see it, the V-Twin manufacturers have caught up, passed, and spit dirt in Harleys face.

I know it's all about marketing and the dollar, but they have everything in place to produce EPA compliant 103s....why not do it and use the 110 kit as the money maker. Why are they so darn slow to catch up to what the buyers want?

[Sleepy]

probably because there's a major stampede on the 96 and this way they get to make the money twice..on the 103 then 110.

[GreyBear]

I saw that title in the bookstore the other day and quipped to my old lady: "cause we can!" Same answer to your question Deathwind: Cause they can. As long as people are standing in line to buy a product the company making that product is not going to spend money making it better. Why should they? Harley doesn't race any more. They just sell terribly over priced, tecnologically chalenged, status symbol motorcycles. And they do well doing it. Now if 50% of the people that are going to buy a new bike this year were to not do so and write to the motor company and explain why.......we would see some tremendous innovation. But HD makes a good profit and rule number 2 of business is: If it works don't fix it.
As to bigger and better...maybe. the 88 I have is the displacement I used to spend a mint on with Truett and Osborne to have in a shovel. There were multi millions of miles put on H-D's that were 61 cubic inch and even more on 74's which is now considered an entry level bike aka the 1200 sporty.
There is only so much power you can have and use the classic styling that makes HD what it is. Trying to take a Harley or a Harley style cruiser and compete with a real sportbike....well you need tons of money, cohonas the size of basketballs......and the brain the size of an oyster. Why reinvent the wheel? I love my Harley, but I don't love it because it is the most perfect example of motorcycle engineering in existance. I love it the same way Mrs. Bear loves me........in spite of all it's faults and shortcomings.

Ride Free........

[FLHTbiker]

Deathwind, we rode a lot this last weekend and everywhere we wen't I would say that probably 75% of the bikes on the road were Harley's not the
Yamaha Stratoliner/Roadliner 113 (1851cc)
Kawasaki Vulcan 125 (2053cc)
Suzuki M109R 109 (1783cc)
Big Dog 117 (1916cc)
Am. Ironhorse 111 (1819cc)
Honda VTX1800 109 (1795cc)
Victory 100 (1638cc)

Bigger does not make them necessarily more desirable.

[DeathWind]

FLHTbiker,

Very true....there are a lot of Harleys on the road and always will be. I wonder if Victory, Big Dog, or AIH got a better handle on their MSRP, if this would still be the case. Personnaly $28k+ for a bike is too much for me. Right now the Oversea Exchange Car Sales (program for oversea & deployed military) still has 483 '06 models in their database, 12 '05 models and one '04 (a sporty). Plus, they only show four '07 models (Road King Custom, Softail Deuce, Electra Glide Ultra Classic, & Dyna Super Glide). It used to be that every model would be sold long before the next years models came out. Now they have so many '06s that are not moving. Wonder how many dealers here in the states are facing the same thing since the '07s were introduced.

But it sure would be nice if the next Harley I purchased had the 110 from the factory.

[FLHTbiker]

Well Deathwind, I can tell you that the sales manager at the Harley shop where we always go told me that he needs trade-ins as they sold all of their 06 models. I went to two HD shops over the 3 day weekend and they both had 07 Ultras on the floor priced at $21,700.00 There is one on the West side of town that thinks everyone is made of money and will sell you one for $26,500.00. Our dealer sells over twice the number of bikes that that shop does and our dealer has a better selection of bikes.
There are good dealers out there and there are dealers trying to still your wallet.
I know of a Honda dealer that over prices his 1800 Goldwings. Everyone knows the guy is a crook yet he sells a lot of bikes.

[hotroadking]

Buddy has a Yamahammmer Silverado Softailclone comes stock with 98 CUI and about 55 HP, the motor runs ok has about 85 ft pound of tq, with a stage 1 and pipes with ignition it pulled a whopping 62 HP.

He ran me this weekend I was on a 02 Ultra, Stock heads and 88 bore, tw37B cams, Rienhart Duals, SE Filter and a tuned Powercommander, We were close in First and Second and once I hit third He was left behind.

Size matters, but a well prepped HD can run big time.

[SPORSTERBOY]

Because That Would Make A Cost Of Buying Increase, For A Already Over Priced Harley. IF I DIDNT WANT ALL THE SHT FROM MY PADNERS, MAYBE A CHEAPER JAP BIKE WOULD BE A OPTION. MY POPS BEEN RIDE'N SINCE THE 60'S AND IS LOOKING AT THE VICTORY'S. GO'S 2 SHOW YA, HARLEY IS GETTIN 2 COMERCAIL. I SEE IT ALL THE TIME AT THE POKER RUNS AND RALLYS IN MY SHORT 10 YEARS OF RIDE'N.

[SK]

Originally Posted by DeathWind

I know it's all about marketing and the dollar, but they have everything in place to produce EPA compliant 103s....why not do it and use the 110 kit as the money maker. Why are they so darn slow to catch up to what the buyers want?

Because the majority will spend money to beef up the power. It's all about money..nothing else.

And all manufacturers are leaning out the bikes to meet EPA stds. I put a PowerCommander III in my FJR (stock pipes) just so I could fatten the mixture a hair and get rid of the peakyness of the throttle because it was so lean. I didn't do it for more power.

[SPORSTERBOY]

That's Why I Ride A 883, No Money

[hookvnv]

cubic inches and horsepower is great i love it.i lost an arm and a leg on a fast bike 26 yrs ago.havent riden two wheels since,rode trikes,but now i have bought a h-d fatboy looks great sounds great and i just want to ride and enjoy the road,no more need to have the spit torn out of my mouth by the speed of a really fast bike.god bless all and keep the wind in your face.....hook

[SK]

Welcome Hook..here and back to motorcycling.

[gator]

Welcome back to road Hook, they got cell phones out there now, it ant any better when it seems like everybody you meet is talking on the phone and half paying attention to what they are doing...ride safe...

[hookvnv]

sk and gator thank you both very much.....hook

[knucklehead]

Yo Deathwind, you hit the nail on the head, it's the way they drag along slowly, people will still want a harley. I'm fifty four, only started riding less than two years ago. There was no way I was going to go metric, I did consider it. My girlfriend said it's not a harley! Needless to say though I started out with less bang for the buck. However, now when I rideoff the others know whats that sound BANGING IN the WIND! I now also go around trying other mechanics so everything doesn't cost a hundred$ and up.

[goats_hogs]

Welcome back Hook, stay out of the populated areas if you can. No one pays much attention to the bikes at rush hour it seems like around here....

I'm suprised at the fact that no one has mentioned the amount of un-american parts on the Harleys anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's a world market, blah, blah, blah. I know some of the parts will be made out of this country. But it really grieved me to have to open up the outer fairing shell on my 2004 Road glide, only to find 5 things that said very prominately.... Made in China. I didn't look long to find them, they jumped out at me.... I just stopped looking, I'm sure there are more in there.

Wouldn't take alot for me to sell the thing and buy an older EVO (already have one, put 10k on is since last October, only 6k on the Glide) with low miles on it. I'm betting my 1991 FLHS doesn't have anything made there on it.....

[Sleepy]

..for giving me a kick in the rear and a reality check...My body is pretty banged up from work and sports and I have wondered about the days where I can't ride a sport bike and get a little bummed about the idea of just cruising around..and then I read your post and everything gets put in perspective...watch out for the dreaming drivers in the cars and enjoy that Fatboy!!!!
thanks again
Bob

[scooter]

I'm suprised at the fact that no one has mentioned the amount of un-american parts on the Harleys anymore.

I believe, that if that continues, what we will experience will be just like the AMF days for HD. It will eventually be their death knell, if they don't stop it, and go back to supporting AMERICAN made only. All it takes is all of us banding together to just say no, and make 'em buy American. That's part of the whole Harley picture, when you buy one you're supposed to be supporting freedom, liberty, apple pie, mom, etc....it's all about AMERICANA.

NOT China. If you want Chinese so bad, then go there, Corporate. Just don't make us buy their crap.

I could RANT for days on this subject, but I'll spare y'all. Most of y'all know how I feel about most anything foreign anyway.

out here,

scoot

[FLHTbiker]

Originally Posted by scooter

I believe, that if that continues, what we will experience will be just like the AMF days for HD. It will eventually be their death knell, if they don't stop it, and go back to supporting AMERICAN made only. All it takes is all of us banding together to just say no, and make 'em buy American. That's part of the whole Harley picture, when you buy one you're supposed to be supporting freedom, liberty, apple pie, mom, etc....it's all about AMERICANA. scoot

This is exactly how I feel about buying a foreign owned car or pickup. I'll probably get a lot of flack from this but I will not buy any vehicales unless there made by an American company. The buying of so many new foreign owned vehicles has helped put the deficit in this country way to high. All of the profits go back to their country not here.
I know some say if Chevy or Ford could build them as well as Toyota, Honda and so on we would buy one. Well, that is really a bunch of crap. We drive a 2002 Chevy Impala and it has been by far the best car we have ever had, gas mileage is 28-34 on the highway. My 3/4 ton 4X4 Chevy truck is absolutely the best and could not even imagine replacing it with some dam Toy. I drive a Ford Escape for my work vehicle, loaded with my equipment and my 2 ladders, its a great vehicle and great gas mileage to. Sure they have foreign made components in them but hey, at least there American owned and the profits stay here not in Jap land or some other foreign place to help their economy. Same way about Harley, yea I wished they would buy nothing but USA made parts but they get them to cheap in ***** land.
I have owned a couple of Gold wings, Yamaha, there OK but they just are not a Harley. I guess there is just something about the Harley's that I just like.
OK, I'll get off my soap box but I just like my USA motorcycles and vehicles to ever think of buying a new foreign vehicle or bike ever again.

[CD]

Marc,

Unless things have changed since we owned one in '05, the Escape is a re-badged Mazda Tribute.

Chrysler is majority owned by Mercedes Benz, Ford and Jaguar are about 50-50%, GM is listing at 45º their stock is rated as 'junk', HD has more non domestic content than ever before, more big three cars and trucks are made in Mexico and Canada than ever.

Every TV, stereo, DVD, radio, kitchen appliance, computer components such as hard drives and video cards, RAM etc are non-domestic.

Whether we like it or not, we are a global economy and sticking our heads in the sand won't change a thing.

You want to change the automotive industry? Get rid of the unions. The time for unions has come and gone. The UAW is so strongly embedded that when the Oklahoma city plant shut down, GM had to continue to pay 2,300 workers for doing squat. I have a long time friend that retired from GM in 1990 after thirty years. He was getting paid North of $30.00 an hour for watching a machine do all the work for eight hours a day. GM is running huge deficits in order to keep a float and do you think the unions are budging? Nope.

We are driving manufacturing overseas because we demand lower prices and the labor force wants more $$$$$ than ever before. We have long blamed corporate greed for higher prices, low wages, moving manufacturing overseas etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. We need to look in the mirror and use a little mental math. Want to make great money at your job and pay less for products made in America? Not going to work unless you balance wages against pricing. Businesses are there to make a profit and are not charities. Why are we calling successful business owners greedy? Why do workers seem to think they deserve a slice of the pie? Do they risk everything they have in order to build a successful business? H#LL no, why take the risk, it's not my job but give me a slice because I work for you.