[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by ironhorse

now not only does my wallet hurt now i have a headache

It's fixin' to get worse too - won't be that long before $3.25/gallon gasoline is "cheap".

[voodoochild]

The fleecing of America continues........

[fujimo]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

It's fixin' to get worse too - won't be that long before $3.25/gallon gasoline is "cheap".

jeez ,,,we ran accross 5 states and back last monday to thursday,,,found one station SAFEWAY,,,that was 3,25,,,,all else more,,,pops

[AFNurse]

The gas station that I normally go to was 3.11 when I went TO work this morning.....was 3.17 when I came home.......

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by AFNurse

The gas station that I normally go to was 3.11 when I went TO work this morning.....was 3.17 when I came home.......

That represents a 1.89% drop in the value of the dollar & market speculation. The 6-cent/gallon rise is merely the symptom.

I know for a fact that @ least in this area & I believe nationwide, the wholesale distributors tell the stations they supply what to set the pump prices @ BEFORE the distributors get a price increase from the refineries that supply them. And that the local stations' gross profit is 7-10 cents/ gallon, no matter what the pump price is.

So if someone says they're going to boycott this brand or that, all they're doing is hurting the local business - they're not doing anything to the big oil companies 'cause if you travel the same distance, you're going to use the same amount of fuel anyway. And the fuel in any given area all comes from the same place, no matter what brand station sells it.

For example, I've been by the "tank farm" in Charlotte numerous times & you'll see tankers from the different brands lined up to fill from the same overhead racks. Each distributor puts in additives for the brands they supply, like "Techron" for Chevron & Texaco gasolines which suppliers of off-brand stations like RaceTrac don't add, but the gasoline, diesel & kerosene sold in the whole region comes from that tank farm.

There are a few exceptions, like the Amoco premium we used to call "white gas" sold @ BP stations is trucked in from out-of-State, but the vast majority of fuel comes up to the Charlotte tank farm via 2 piplelines from the same refineries.

So if the speculators on Wall St. are betting that crude oil will be higher next month (dollar falling more) then the refineries react to that & tell those distributors they supply what the increase will be & those distributors tell the local stations to raise the pump price. Bear in mind the price of crude hasn't actually gone up @ the time & it might even drop a bit before the next shipments go out, put you're still going to pay the higher price & your local station's not going to make more or less either way.

Familiar with a "futures contract"? You can buy a contract for say 100,000 gallons of gasoline for delivery in May @ a set price. You may gamble that the actual price will be higher or lower than your contract price, but you're committed to pay the set price either way. That's a VERY risky business & you can go broke in 15 seconds, but for example, if you think gasoline will be $3.50 wholesale on 15 May & you've got a contract for $3.20, you'll make a profit. And you don't ever even see or take delivery of the gasoline, you're just buying & selling contracts.

That's what drives the pump prices - that & the continuing fall of the dollar, which started in 1914. It's what Wall St. THINKS crude oil prices, refinery costs, etc. are GOING to be - NOT what they actually are.

Same deal with political unrest & wars in countries where the oilfields are - if the traders THINK a certain oilfield might get shut down, the price of crude will jump, but even if the field stays producing as normal, once the price is up it'll stay up. And then the Fed says it's going to drop interest rates & pump another $100 billion of cash into the economy by loaning $$$ created out of thin air to the banks, the price goes up again 'cause the more "money" you print & the easier it is to borrow, the less valuable it becomes.

Nasty, nasty game, isn't it? And guess who pays the price of admission? We do. Always smarter to gamble with someone else's $$$ or with "monopoly money" that isn't even real & that's just exactly what the players do.

- Art

[Slimjim]

Interesting stuff, Art. Sounds reasonable. I can remember pulling out of a service station when the price went up from .37 to .44 per gallon . I said, "I ain't paying it". My wife still reminds me of that from time to time. My diesel is now at $4.00 per gallon at the cheapest stations.

We have been getting gasoline much cheaper than most places in the world for many years. I'm not sure why we can't get a deal on crude from Iraq since we are pouring so much into their country . I'm all for big business and I don't think you can really "raise" their taxes. Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect them from us, the consumer. Taxes are another cost of doing business.....they go up, you raise your price of the product. I can understand why the increased cost of crude would cause the price of gasoline to go up but I really don't understand why it should equate to higher profits. The increased cost being passed along is what I would expect but it would seem that the profits would be affected also Obviously,I don't understand all I know about economics.

Hillary says she is going to take these excess profits from the greedy corporations and use the money to develop alternative energy. She'll do that right after she gets the government doing our health care. What a mess that would be . I still believe the free market system will work if we get the government off its back. When it is profitable to have vehicles running on fuel cells, the technology will be developed. I think that day is coming pretty fast because the day of filling up for a few bucks is over. It now costs me much more to fill up my bike than it used to cost to fill up the truck. I'm still going to fill up both when I need to as long as I have the finances to do so.

Ron Paul did have a lot of good ideas. When you really listen to him, he was correct on many points but he was a little idealistic on some of his foreign policy matters. I don't think he could have ever been elected but we could do a whole lot worst......and may still do so .

Someone mentioned that 80% of the wealth is controlled by 20% of the people. That may be true but I've heard it theorized that if all the money were equally divided among all the people, in five years it would all be back where it started. I believe that is about how it would work and probably how it should work.
Slim

[Art_NJr]

Slimjim sez:

I can remember pulling out of a service station when the price went up from .37 to .44 per gallon. I said, "I ain't paying it". My wife still reminds me of that from time to time. My diesel is now at $4.00 per gallon at the cheapest stations.

Yep - and I can remember going with my dad to the car dealership in 1961 when he wrote a check for $1985 for a new car - on the way home he told me, "Son, don't even spend more than $2000 on a new car."

We have been getting gasoline much cheaper than most places in the world for many years. I'm not sure why we can't get a deal on crude from Iraq since we are pouring so much into their country .

There are several reasons for that, key ones being "contract" & the fact that oil revenues which are supposed to be spent on rebuiliding the country just up & disappear - we're talking billions of $$$ that nobody can account for. But even if they were accounted for & spent as they should be, the contract price is determined by agreements with OPEC. The world market sets oil prices & we don't get to tell any country what theirs will be - other than ourselves & that's been rigged since about 1975.

I'm all for big business and I don't think you can really "raise" their taxes. Corporations don't pay taxes ...

Yes they do. For example, with an after-tax profit of $40 billion, Exxon/Mobil paid $110 billion in taxes. You can talk about the "evil" oil companies all day long, but that's not where the real problem is & the ones we're familiar with only are about 9% of the global market - most are owned by the Gov't. of the country the oilfields are in (i.e. Venezuela, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, etc.)

Don't get caught up in the symptoms, focus on the problems. And a huge one is we haven't built any new storage & refinery facilities in the U.S. for 30 years - all the crude oil in the world doesn't do you any good if you've got no place to put it & your refineries are running up to capacity - with maintenance going on all the time because they are so old.

Would the big oil companies built new facilities with their profits? You bet they would - if they could. While the technology exists to build new facilities in a year or so, it would take billions of $$$ and an army of lawyers @ least 7 years to do it. Thanks, environmentalists & Congress. And while the big oil companies already own oilfields where there are proven reserves, they're not allowed to pump it or even drill for it - same reasons.

I can understand why the increased cost of crude would cause the price of gasoline to go up but I really don't understand why it should equate to higher profits. The increased cost being passed along is what I would expect but it would seem that the profits would be affected also Obviously,I don't understand all I know about economics.

Not trying to brag but I do. Had a little help though - my dad taught post-graduate Economics for 27 years & he saw the "Arab Oil Embargo" in the early '70's coming years before it did. (Also the end of a new car for $2000 or less). And for going on 17 years now, I've been doing research into such boring things as federal regulations. The public only sees the symptoms - the problems run far deeper. But it's not "conspiracy theory" & every bit of it is in law libraries - just takes a LONG time to look it all up & "connect the dots".

Hillary says she is going to take these excess profits from the greedy corporations and use the money to develop alternative energy.

And why do the oil companies have to be dragged kicking & screaming into "alternative" sources? Because they have a bunch of chemical engineers who know such things as ethanol produces less energy than it takes to produce it & it's a rather poor fuel. Might be surpised to know that some are investing in "windmill farms" because it takes so much electricity to run their operations - if they can cut their power bill, they will. Hate the oil co. execs all you want & I am not being an apologist for them, but their engineers are not idiots. Hillary obviously is.

I still believe the free market system will work if we get the government off its back. When it is profitable to have vehicles running on fuel cells, the technology will be developed.

BINGO. And I can tell you that not only we do not have a "free market" system, but that Gov't. doesn't want new technology which would reduce the amount of highway use taxes on fuel, from personal knowledge.

Example - friend of mine has a little business called ECS Engineering & one of the things he's been working on is smaller electrolosis setups which extract hydrogen gas from water & inject it into an engine. Takes so much equipment & electricity that to run a vehicle on 100% hydrogen requires equip. bigger than the vehicle, but he has picked up 6 mpg on a car & with his pickup truck by leaning out the air/fuel mixture & replacing some gasoline with hydrogen - I've seen the setup in both vehicles & it doesn't take up all that much space. Now he's working on a larger one for a semi-truck which will sit behind the cab.

He was invited to a group of engineers & college professors to show what he'd accomplished so far & they were very impressed. Said they thought they could get a $500,000 Gov't. grant to continue development. A month went by & no word. A few "what's up" phone calls & then the truth comes out - the Gov't. doesn't want you to develop that system - especially because it works.

Ron Paul did have a lot of good ideas. When you really listen to him, he was correct on many points but he was a little idealistic on some of his foreign policy matters.

But he also happens to be right. Read the Constitution & you'll see he's right - it does NOT authorize the foreign policy we have & in fact prohibits it.

Someone mentioned that 80% of the wealth is controlled by 20% of the people. That may be true but I've heard it theorized that if all the money were equally divided among all the people, in five years it would all be back where it started.

It's more like 95% - 5% and it always has been. Over 5000 years of history & even the Bible show that.

- Art