[CD]

There were national guard units from multiple states deployed here under orders from President Bush and I believe some still are. Most are working on the fence, roads for the Border Patrol etc. Some are deployed at what amount to LP's (Listening Posts) and report any activities to the Border Patrol. The AZ national guard has been deployed at the border for many years. The Border Patrol has at least doubled the number of agents here, drones are being used, the fence is being built, the minutemen are monitoring certain areas and there is a lot of reporting done by citizens.

Since the ID or proof of status law went into affect on January 1st, a lot has changed. There are far, far fewer cars with Sonoran license plates at both of my grandsons schools and they both tell us there are fewer students (go figure, illegals getting free education), you can actually understand and speak English when ordering at fast food joints, no business has gone bust due to loss of illegal employees and, if they did great!

I seriously doubt that you could find a significant percentage of border state citizens against more presence on the border whether by agents, guard or volunteers. Only those removed from the direct impact harp on the "they all are just seeking a better life so we should let them in" line of bull. Drugs by the tons are captured every year. Murders by rival cartels, rival coyote's happen all along the border.

Let just one incident happen where the terrorists come in through the border and all of the Liberals will cry "the President should have closed the border!" If Obama or Hillary (Bill part II) get in, I'm moving a lot further North and buying surplus mines on EBay.

[ringo912]

Everyone is wondering what Obama's agenda is, wonder if he is supporting his wife. Read on!

[GreyBear]

Ya know, reading such really pisses me off. First. I think that ANYONE that feels they should be granted special priviledges or are somehow better than others because of thier skin color, ethnicity. or special relationship with whatever form of "god" they believe in are too stupid to be allowed out alone. But the idea that some ignorant cracker with a hood spouting hate and BS is racist and a person of color taking the same tack is simply "identifying with the pain of thier people" infuriates me. Racism is racism, period. And a person that spouts that sort of crap is a racist. And as long as we have some semblance of freedom of speech let them say what they wanna say. But don't try and use a double standard to judge it! And don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH..........

Ride free........

[CD]

Originally Posted by ringo912

Everyone is wondering what Obama's agenda is, wonder if he is supporting his wife. Read on!

I have actually stopped receiving email from an old friend over these types of stories. He would send me emails of "true" events that were repeatedly merely urban legends. There is a website: Urban Legends Reference Pages that does a pretty good job of finding the truth to the legends and posting the results as unbiased as possible. The Internet is a wonderful place but it is very much a double edged sword. Especially for those with an agenda.
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Michelle Obama's Thesis

I expect that it is much like two scientists competing for the same funds. One supports a theory, one does not. Both manipulate the available data to support their arguments. Using the same manipulated data, each proves their position is correct and the other scientist is wrong.

I gave up party affiliations long ago. I registered as an Independent because I want to vote according to who I think will do the best job. Right now, Alfred E. Newman seems to be a pretty good fit.

It seems you have to listen to the same story on CNN and Fox etc and read between the lines because none seem to tell the story without leaning one way or another and embellishing their version. I was speaking to a Doc at the VA whose daughter works for a local major affiliate. It is owned by a large conglomerate and when one of the local reporters tended to write the stories without bias, his contract was not renewed. The lesson being that the conglomerate owners tend to lean toward the liberal side and if you wanted to work there, tow the line.

My older Bro is still pissed at me because he bought into the Obama / Muslim, oops Black only Christian church, he was sworn in on the Quran not the bible stories.
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Who Is Barack Obama?
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Congressional Swearing-In on the Quran

I really don't care if a candidate is green, yellow, purple or male or female. I want to read and study and cast the vote the way I believe is right and not according to someone else's agenda.


Ringo, this is not intended to flame you at all.

[ringo912]

No offense or flaming taken, I probably should have checked on urban legends myself However, I'm with you on Alfred E. Newman, wish I still had my collection of "MAD" magazines.

[FlynDutchman]

Originally Posted by Ultra Al

So why can't the states confront the federal government and say that since they are not doing their job the state is going to have to do it and send the national guard down on the border. Al

In a time of war the National Guard are Federalized & the Coast Guard becomes another arm of the Navy....Federal power exceeds state in that case. Remember the book catch 22 ?

[fujimo]

cd ,,,your rite,,i gave up party affiliation long ago for same reason,,,some in each party are good,,,i am wondering how SOME will vote if obama gets nomination,,,as welll as how some will vote if hillary gets nomination,,, they seem to be bitter rivals,,,thier followers,,,, the longer i have to listen to hillary the more i am drawn to mccain,,, which is less of two evils,,,,or obama,,, crap cant even convince myself what to do,,,,pops

[Ultra Al]

I figure all I can do is bite the bullet and vote for McCain and wait for the next election. There is a better then even chance that at least one supreme court justice will be appointed and McCain is more apt to appoint a justice more in tune with my way of thinking than the other two. I just hope McCain picks a good Vice Pres. Rumors has it Codi Rice may be a choice. If that comes to pass we can probably look forward to some exciting fireworks in the middle east. Romney would be another good choice, religion aside, he is a very successful business man and could coach McCain in finance and budget, hopefully lower taxes and get us out of this recession. AL

[fujimo]

dang i thot this rebate thin was going to get us out of this recessssion,,,pops

[Art_NJr]

In a time of war the National Guard are Federalized & the Coast Guard becomes another arm of the Navy....Federal power exceeds state in that case.

BUT - the war has to be Constitutionally authorized to begin with & none of the current wars (including war on terrorism, war on drugs, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al) are. U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8:

"The Congress shall have power . . .

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"

I believe many people here have served in the military & may be serving now. We all took the same Oath - including to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign & domestic. "Public servants" take a similar Oath. But how may actually read the Constitution before they took that Oath?

And with respect to the liberal arguments that the Constitution is a "living document" that must be interpreted differently now, I'll quote Mr. Justice Scalia of the supreme Court of the United States, from his scathing rebuke of Mr. Justice Breyer's dissenting opinion in Apprendi v. New Jersey, 530 U.S. 466 (2000):

"Justice Breyer proceeds on the erroneous and all-too-common assumption that the Constitution means what we think it ought to mean. It does not; it means what it says."

We do have a huge problem though. Very few Americans can read on the level the "Founding Fathers" wrote & that includes young people with a Master's Degree in English.

The Constitution was specifically written so there wouldn't be arguments over "interpretation" - but we have to realize that the Founders like James Madison (primary author of the Consitution), Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), John Jay (1st supreme Court Chief Justice - yes, the lower-case "s" in "supreme"), et al, could read, write & speak English (King James Bible type), French, German & Latin.

Know where the "Definitive Treaty of Peace" which offically ended the "Revolutionary War" was signed? In Paris, France, 3 September 1783. By whom? From the United States ("Them", not "It"). John Adams, Benjamin Franklin & John Jay. I have a copy.

NOBODY in Gov't. is anywhere near their level & college professors aren't either. And to be quite honest, I wasn't very good @ English in school either. So how did I learn any of this? By reading - going on 17 years now - including going back to such things as the 1st Articles of Confederation between the Colonies of New England, dated 19 May 1643.

The history of this country is well documented - but don't expect to find anything other than "Revisionist History" taught in any school anywere. And if you want to see what the concept of the Constitution & the new central government it created was, read the Federalist Papers - all 85 of them, published from October 1787 to August 1788.

I didn't get into this study until 1991, but it's continued ever since. What the "news" media tells you is a lie - what the Gov't. tells you is a lie & what the candidates running for office say shows you that they haven't got a clue.

[fujimo]

what war,,,we lost more in one day in nam,,,,, the us military loses more per year in civilian life than iraq,,,and yes,,,the congress of these united states DID authorise bush to proceed as he felt fit,,,,pops

[Art_NJr]

and yes,,,the congress of these united states DID authorise bush to proceed as he felt fit,,,,pops

Cite your source(s).

Not to be argumentative, but legal research is one of the things I do for a living. Did you know that the "Patriot Act" wasn't even printed & distributed to the members of Congress before it was voted on? That's only one example.

[FLHTbiker]

Man your up late Art!

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by FLHTbiker

Man your up late Art!

Yep !! You may see me post @ several different times of day or night.

I have the luxury of not having to work certain hours & can do just as much work on the computer @ 1 a.m. as I can @ 1 p.m. - looking up boring stuff like statutes, regulations & court cases. Or calulating gear ratios for rpm, etc.

I prefer my old routine of "early to bed, early to rise" but getting older, that doesn't always work & I've got no employer to answer to. I'd make more $$$ as an employee, but I will never do it again - been about 15 years since I was.

[SPORSTERBOY]

CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE STILL DRAG'EN THIS OUT THE WORLD IS GOING TO END ON DEC 21, 2012 ANY WAY, ACORDING TO THE DISCOVERY CHANNLE.

[FLHTbiker]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

Yep !! You may see me post @ several different times of day or night.

I have the luxury of not having to work certain hours & can do just as much work on the computer @ 1 a.m. as I can @ 1 p.m. - looking up boring stuff like statutes, regulations & court cases. Or calulating gear ratios for rpm, etc.

I prefer my old routine of "early to bed, early to rise" but getting older, that doesn't always work & I've got no employer to answer to. I'd make more $$$ as an employee, but I will never do it again - been about 15 years since I was.

Yea Art I saw your post come in at 11 PM my time and noticed your on the East Coast and then got so tired thinking of being up at 2 AM I got up and went to bed. I know what you mean about working for yourself. I've been working for myself going on 20 years. The last employer I worked for was so full of Asian people and Jap people and I had to put up with their idiosyncrasies and crap I quit. I went to work for myself only answering to me. Working for yourself at least for me I'm harder on myself than any employer is but I can take time off if I want to. I probably could never work for an employer again, to ornery I've been told and say it like it is.

[Art_NJr]

Originally Posted by SPORSTERBOY

CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE STILL DRAG'EN THIS OUT THE WORLD IS GOING TO END ON DEC 21, 2012 ANY WAY, ACORDING TO THE DISCOVERY CHANNLE.

And that's one reason why I won't pay for cable or satellite TV - got "rabbit ears" for the 2 TV's here, which are very rarely on. (Yes, I ordered the coupons for the converter boxes which will be required next year when the signal goes from analog to digital).

Just like the guy in the grocery store the other day - handing out free newspapers & pushing subscriptions to the Charlotte Observer (I call it the "Disturber") - I said, "When I know someone is going to lie to me before their mouth opens or fingers touch the keyboard, I'm not interested in what they have to say."

[ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

And that's one reason why I won't pay for cable or satellite TV - got "rabbit ears" for the 2 TV's here, which are very rarely on. (Yes, I ordered the coupons for the converter boxes which will be required next year when the signal goes from analog to digital).

Just like the guy in the grocery store the other day - handing out free newspapers & pushing subscriptions to the Charlotte Observer (I call it the "Disturber") - I said, "When I know someone is going to lie to me before their mouth opens or fingers touch the keyboard, I'm not interested in what they have to say."

I like to think that i ain't an old fart.......yet....but I love when people can't under stand why we don't have cable, I did let my wife and kids talk me into it a couple years back but they came to their senses and again we don't have cable ( I figured I can watch commercials for free) and they see that now. and commputer/tv games 4 kids 12 to grad this year and we didn't have the games until about 3-4 years ago and they saved and bought it but they don't play it. the cell phone is my pet peeve, but i live by it at work and on the road. my inlaws asked when were going to update our tv for digital and i remark to them that as soon as some one else writes the check. technology...damned if ya do damned if ya don't

[Art_NJr]

the cell phone is my pet peeve, but i live by it at work and on the road.

That is one thing I did switch to 'cause the local phone service just kept going higher & higher & the good dial-up interent company I had got bought out by Earthlink, who promptly raised the price & dropped the quality of service. Switched to cable internet & dropped the land-line phone altogether. And I used to travel a lot with a pager, but finding a pay phone that works when you really do need to return the call is nigh on impossible & you'd better have a jar full of quarters - cell phone is not only easier, it's a lot cheaper.

my inlaws asked when were going to update our tv for digital and i remark to them that as soon as some one else writes the check.

LOL !!! I haven't gotten my coupons in the mail yet, but they're supposed to be for $40 each (you can get 2) & the converter boxes are supposedly about $50, so it should only cost about $10 per TV to switch. And we've got until next February to do it.

technology...damned if ya do damned if ya don't

It is a double-edged sword, isn't it? Lots of benefits but lots of hassles too & often insane expense. I read the threads about the electronic fuel injection problems & solutions & just shake my head when I see $700 for this, $900 for that, etc. - heck, for $15 I can get all the parts I need to make a CV carb work just fine & anybody with a service manual & basic hand tools can do it.

[fujimo]

not too hard for a person as smart as you to check congress vote on iraq vote,,,public knowledge,,,only 40 or 50 of YOUR senators voted against giving permission ...hillary voted for ,,,obama against,,,pops