[chucktx]

I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS. Now, I hope the following 14 reasons to the contrary are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...4/01/ldt0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt01.html

0. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../12/ldt01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.o...eportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

[cowboy]

Chuck I think you answered your own queston at least 14 times , Yes the tree hugging group who run all these groups are just sending us all down the the poor house road , eather make the citzens& make them pay for all there stuff or put them back home without a damn thing

[Red Rider]

Yeah, but the really important thing is to get the Polar Bear on the endangered species list. Stop whining about the little stuff and get your priorities straight - bears are DIEING!

And I don't have one mounted on my wall.........yet.......

[FriendGregory]

Yes, collectively yes. That is also why we get the politicians we get.
Find and watch the Southpark TV show Giant douche or a ****sandwich.
Get out the vote campaigns drive me crazy. The campaigns should be "learn the issues and the consequences". I wonder if people that do not pay property or income taxes should be allowed to vote. This legal looting of the country has got to stop. It reminds me of the 3rd world countries that take the estates of the rich and kill them and then come begging to the world for food because they have no jobs. I remember a time South Africa was exporting food then, they killed farmers/ranchers and the locals were starving. In as much as I say send in immigrants, they should be documented. Did I tell you, an undocumented worked took my $20 an hour lettuce picking job?

[Art_NJr]

. . . The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

And the Iraq war costs just a palty $341.4 million/day - currently:
National Priorities Project | Bringing the Federal Budget Home

The cost has been rising & will continue to:
http://zfacts.com/p/447.html

[wvak47]

Originally Posted by Art_NJr

And the Iraq war costs just a palty $341.4 million/day - currently:
National Priorities Project | Bringing the Federal Budget Home

The cost has been rising & will continue to:
http://zfacts.com/p/447.html

With those figures then we spend $124.4Billion a year on the war. That means we could fight for 2.72years (990.9 days) for what we spend on people with no claim nor right to any of our US Taxpayer monies.

Don't misunderstand me, I am opposed to this INVASION of another country. I support our men and women in uniform and appreciate what they go through and are willing to do for us as citizens, but I do not now nor ever will I support King George in his conquest of the sandbox. I view this as a misallocation of force. We should cut the 338Billion from the illegals, bring our troops and their toys home and use the monies we save on caring for illegals to drive them from our real estate AGAIN.

[Red Rider]

wvak47 - You say INVASION like its a bad thing! A little invading every now and then keeps most everyone on their better behavior....

[Art_NJr]

We should cut the 338Billion from the illegals, bring our troops and their toys home and use the monies we save on caring for illegals to drive them from our real estate AGAIN.

Amen. And the only one who would have done it would have been Ron Paul. None of the 3 in the running now will & actually, all support the illegals. And "more of the same McCain" says he doesn't care if we've got troops in Iraq for 100 years.

It's been well said that "People get the kind of government they deserve" & the public as a whole is to blame for all of it - otherwise none of it would have happened to begin with. So to answer the original question, "Are we that stupid" - collectively as Americans, the answer is yes.

[SPORSTERBOY]

You Can't Just Exclude Iraq, We Still Have Our Little Invasions Going On In Other Places, Like Afganastan. Not That I'm Agianst War And Support Of Our Troops, It's The People Behind Them, Our Polititions, The Same Ones Who Say, If I Knew Now What I Knew Then? As For The War On Terror Is About The Same Thing As Listening To Al Gore About Global Warming, We Spiffeed Up Our Internal Securety, But Fail To Protect The Borders, If We Really Felt So Unsafe I Would Think We Should Become Less Libaral And More Agressive With The Situation, More Reason For The Goverment To Put Us In A Scare To Gain Control Over Our Freedom, What Ever Happend To Iraqs Oil Pay'n For The War, Kinda Odd How We Have Been Doing Fine On Oil For The Past 100 Years And All The Sudden It's Gained In Price Over The Past 8 Years 4-5 Hundred Percent. Meanwhile If Your White And Have A Job And Want To Go To College Or Continue Your Education, Good Luck On Those Grants, Good Luck On Any Assistance If Your White Single And Can Work. Any How I Lost My Right To Vote So I Can Complain Because I Can't Do Anything About It And Didn't Vote For Any Of This, But Still Have To Pay My Taxes, And Live In What Use To Be A Democratic Country Now Turned To A Police Socialist State.

[SK]

Originally Posted by Red Rider

wvak47 - You say INVASION like its a bad thing! A little invading every now and then keeps most everyone on their better behavior....

We just need to let Iran know that we'll..as the Joni Mitchell song says.."put up a parking lot!"

And for all you environmental folks my motto is: "Earth first..we'll pave the rest of the planets later".

[ringo912]

We have to remember our troops don't have a choice, when they are up for called up to duty, they go where their they are told, and I fully support our troops. I don't totally agree with the whole Iraq conflict. JMHO but this war is not about freedom or domacracy for the Iraqi people, even though they lived under a dictator, Bush's war is all about oil and nothing more.

Now this is not necessarily my opinion, but, a lot of people have a problem with the way Bush handled this whole thing. We have gone into many different countries to fight a war, however, Bush is the first president ever to conduct a full scale invasion of another country without being asked for help from the people of that country. So he basically has put himself on a list with Hitler, Mussolini, Stahlin, and a few others as a dictator trying to overthrow another country. And again it's all about the oil.

[fujimo]

sportsterboy,,,,you think this country is bad,,, why not move to iraq or iran or china or north korea,,,, or a multitude of others,,,just your speech about not being democratic would get your head removed,,,, as far as INVADING,,,, yup did the same in first w.w. ,,second w.w. korea... veitnam etc..... we could let these nations do as they please,,,than ,,,like hitler ,,,they could come after us,,,, or in his case all adjoining nations ,,,, than be over here ,,,this world is now really small,,,,when you consider weapons available ,,, or perhaps we can go back to your ansesters,,,, came to the americas,,,,slaughtered the indian ,,,in same manor as hitler,,,took there land,,,, never even apologised,,,,i had a first generation chinese girl,,,engineer work for me,,,her parents took her back to china for a visit,,,, she got out of the country as quickly as she could...left her parents to come HOME by themselves,,,, said she would never return to china,,,even tho majority of her family is still there,,,, so move ,,,,pops

[steveb]

Awhile back I got stuck at an airport due to delays. While I was waiting I ran into a kid that wrote articles for an Austrlalian motorcycle magazine. we started to chat about bikes and riding before long the conversation turned to differences between the 2 countries. After discussing cultural differences the conversation turned to his views of the mighty United States military. He pointed out an interesting observation. How can the US have such a mighty military force yet we can not stop illegal aliens or illegal drugs from coming into this country. We can go to Iraq and in about 3 weeks time we are running the country , yet we can not seem to pproperly defend our own country. With that being said he asked me if I thought the government really wants to stop illegal aliens and drugs from entering the country. Not sure what the answer to that question is.

[AFNurse]

primary reason the mighty military can not shut off the illigal boarder crossings would be related to the non-use of military for that job. When politicians commit military hardware and people for an operation (war or operation other then war such as huricane duty, flood duty, or other disaster) we bring in all the resources..... at this time, the politicians have not brought the mighty military guns into the illegal boarder crossings.....would be a political kiss of death for them...."killing all those poor illigals for no real reason"...... at this time, you have some federal customs agents, maybe some national guard units, and local cops.......that is all that can be used to stem the tide...... If the fury of the military would be unleased on the boarder, not much would get through....That is just my opinion tho!

[Sleepy]

Originally Posted by SK

We just need to let Iran know that we'll..as the Joni Mitchell song says.."put up a parking lot!"

And for all you environmental folks my motto is: "Earth first..we'll pave the rest of the planets later".

Not sure that Joni condones that type of behavior....tis a tree thing ya know..howz things?

[CD]

Originally Posted by steveb

Awhile back I got stuck at an airport due to delays. While I was waiting I ran into a kid that wrote articles for an Australian motorcycle magazine. we started to chat about bikes and riding before long the conversation turned to differences between the 2 countries. After discussing cultural differences the conversation turned to his views of the mighty United States military. He pointed out an interesting observation. How can the US have such a mighty military force yet we can not stop illegal aliens or illegal drugs from coming into this country. We can go to Iraq and in about 3 weeks time we are running the country , yet we can not seem to properly defend our own country. With that being said he asked me if I thought the government really wants to stop illegal aliens and drugs from entering the country. Not sure what the answer to that question is.

That Australian had absolutely no room to critique the US regarding our illegal alien issues when THEY are up to their asses in illegal Indonesians, Vietnamese, Cambodians, etc, etc. My Wife is an Aussie and one of the things she talks about with her relatives in Perth is the situation with the illegals coming in.
Media bias in Australia - illegal immigrants

The military could easily secure the borders....but are you ready for armed forces in your streets just yet?
Being in Aridzona I say go for it! But be ready to knock heads with the citizens that do not really want armed camps in their home towns.

[wvak47]

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 16, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement police or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states, their counties and municipal divisions) in the former Confederate states.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Coast Guard is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act.

The Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act substantially limit the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement.

This is why US Troops are not used to secure the borders.

I feel/believe along with the fore mentioned, Our Government DON'T want to stop the flood. I used to be one of the most racist A-holes you would ever meet. Then one day talking with a good friend (more of a brother) he pointed something out to me that opened my eyes. "All the problems are about color. The Color GREEN. The haves keep the have nots focused on black and white BS so as we don't start looking at their greedy a$$es." Took me a bit to digest that, but since then I have let up on race issues. Now I judge a person by his actions not his skin.

It is the same with the illegal alien influx. A lot of the folks coming here are coming for the same reasons our forefathers did; the desire to better themselves without the yokes of oppression. However, just like with our forefathers many of the ones coming are criminals looking to escape the laws of their countries and/or to further their criminal activities on a new front.

Although I agree this is the best country on earth (or at least I don’t know of another I would prefer to live in), I won’t agree it is as good as it should or could be. I fully believe this country has strayed so far from its Constitutional Republic form of government and beginnings, and been sold out to the highest bidder of the corporations and special interest groups. I support little to nothing this rogue Democracy government we are currently subjects to does or supports.

If anyone feels that this makes me less of an American then screw you. I have studied my founding history and founding fathers. I know most were not bible pounding zealots, although they did think the 10 Commandments were a good idea. I reenacted 18th century and did living history classes for students from grade school through high school, and every kind of Scout you can think of, and was quizzed by some of our brightest youth time and time again, along with our professional educators. I have a better understanding through self education (reading journals, news articles and historical documents) to what our country was supposed to be, and what was meant by our founding documents than any public school education (read brainwashing) could ever give me. I support those that put on the uniform and follow their orders, with a heartfelt belief they are doing the right thing for our country and its people. It is the intentions of those giving the orders I question.

Not sorry for the long winded rant, but I am sorry I allowed myself to become this worked up over an internet posting. I have spent many years on boards where this was THE topic of conversation. I view those years as wasted as very little to nothing good ever came from any of them. I bought a scooter, and immersed myself into its resurrection to clean my mind of such ideologies and BS. I found what I thought a perfect place for me here on BT, and yet again I find myself involved in political ranting. Done with it, the only political anything I care now is rider’s choice.

Your’s in Liberty
Steve Ray

[Art_NJr]

Not sorry for the long winded rant, but I am sorry I allowed myself to become this worked up over an internet posting. I have spent many years on boards where this was THE topic of conversation. I view those years as wasted as very little to nothing good ever came from any of them.

Rant doesn't bother me & I see we have a lot in common. In 1991 I came to the realization that nearly everything taught in schools about the U.S. Constitution & American history, from grade school thru post-graduate university, is a bare-faced lie & since then I've been doing the research on my own. I said earlier that with respect to the question that started this thread, "Are we that stupid", collectively as Americans, the answer is yes. But when you've been taught a lie by a teacher who was taught a lie, by a teacher who was taught a lie, going back 150 years, then it's understandable why you'd believe the lie.

I've seen the same things you have on other boards over the years - constant arguments about the same old stuff, which nobody will get up off their butt & actually look up for themselves. And the truth is not all that hard to find - it is VERY time-conuming though. But university law libraries & places like State Archives & the Library of Congress yield a treasure trove of factual information & I've collected so many documents over the years I had to rent a mini-warehouse.

One of those documents is a Gov't. memo from 1936 which basically says we (the Gov't.) want to keep the people arguing amongst themselves over matters of no concern to us. That way they won't see what's going on right under their noses. That policy has worked like a champ too.

And both the Gov't. & the "news" media know full well that "Perception IS Reality" - since the public will not look anything up, we can feed them all the BS we want & they'll believe it. And we'll feed them some from this side & some from that side so they'll argue over it all - but unimportant things so they never do see the "big picture". Starting to feel like a "lab rat"? You should - 'cause to them we are.

Current example - fuel prices. Everybody's screaming about the symptoms of the problem - have you yet seen one politician discuss the causes? Or have you seen one politician bring up the fact that taking inflation & the falling dollar into account, gasoline costs about the same today as it did in the 1960's?

And with respect to earlier comments wondering if the Gov't. even wants to keep illegals & drugs out, the answer is no. There are several reasons why, but one is governments are very good @ creating problems so they can jump up & say I have the solution & appear to be a great savior. But that solution always entails more control over the public - always has & even a cursory review of history proves it. Short-term & long-term both.

Think about it - how easy is it to control illegal immigrants when you give them something & then threaten to take it away - like driver's licenses & free medical care. Oh, the Gov't. can't control each individual, but they can the group as a whole. For example, what would happen if after an illegal immigrant woman had her baby in a U.S. hospital & was healthy enough to travel, she was deported & her baby put in the State's foster care system? Due to the 14th Amendment in 1868 & numerous U.S. supreme court decisions since then, the child IS a U.S. citizen @ birth - but the mother isn't & the law says she must be deported. State takes the child, mother gets sent home - what do you think that would do to illegal immigration from Mexico? Wouldn't have to do it very many times, would you?

But of course the Mexican Gov't. would be screaming & that would derail the "North American Union" deal the Bush Admin. has been & is working on. And of course all the illegals already here would be screaming. The Gov't. has opened a "Pandora's Box" & the only way it can keep th