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Death Wobble

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by cardboard, May 19, 2011.

  1. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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  2. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I would love to have seen photos of the tires. The infamous Firestone/Ford Explorer deal was all about lack of attention to the tire condition and air pressure maintenance by the drivers (do they even teach routine maintenance stuff in drivers ed anymore?) Photos of the wrecked Explorers sometimes showed worn and/or underinflated tires (hence we now have the tire inflation idiot lights). I have had 7 Explorers between my wife and sons and owned those "killer" tires, even asked for them when replacements needed. I myself racked up more than 500,000 miles on the Explorer and Firestones. I never had an issue.
    I''m sure the cop bikes had good tires, but what brand? I wonder if there really is a wobble gremlin that we should be careful of?
    Years ago the old Kawasaki Z1 had a terrible speed wobble as well as my '78 Goldwing. Once I installed the Vetter fairing mounting bracket the wobble went away (without fairing attached). The Z1's benefited from a sterring damper.

    Ps. If you have more than 50,000 miles on your radial tires on your cage, no matter the brand, change them. Especially you boys in the hot climates. Tread separation IS a real possiblity and you've gotten your moneys worth.
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  3. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Think people not maintaining tire pressure has more to do than brand of tire
  4. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    Amen brother! I've seen that all my life. Drilled it into my sons.
  5. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    I have two riding buddies that are so lazy (and filled with cash) they bought those pressure monitors for their bikes!
  6. HarleysLR

    HarleysLR Active Member

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    I have one friend who rides an 08 Ultra and says he gets a wobble in sharp fast turns, said he has to really man handle it to correct it. I am going to look at a used 09 FLH Standard this morning is wobble something I should be concerned about?
  7. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The newer bikes have the new frame, wide rear tire etc
    I"ve not gotten the wobbles in corners, and I do take them
    somewhat aggressively , however I do also recognize that my
    Road Glide isn't a BMW canyon carver so I don't push
    it like one...

    Tire pressure, alignment all play factors, as well
    as the front fork bearing the big issue on the newer
    ones is that the spec at the factory was lighter
    than what real life wanted, so you need to
    make sure the neck bearing is properly tight...

    Other than that my rg is very stable.
  8. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I can see where the cop bike that got the wobble could have worn or even loose steering head bearings. They put a lot of mileage on 'em.
  9. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    Isn't wobble usually a symptom of incorrect tire balance???
  10. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not always, initially the thoughts were the new 407 tire on the front of the
    FL's (09 and up new frame new front tire) were the culprit and they did
    redesign the tire, however the issue finally was that the spec for tightening the
    nut on the triple trees to the neck was not tight enough.

    Best way to check your nuts is to
    do the fallaway test.

    You put the bike up on a center lift, level
    and front wheel clear of the floor.

    Pull the handlebar back all the way to the
    right and let go, you should get no more than
    2 swings, and you don't count lock to lock only
    for swings.

    Mine had 7 or 8 swings, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of spec

    made up a tool to fix it and tightened the nut
    up until I got 1.5 swings IE one full and back to center.
  11. alex the dog

    alex the dog Active Member

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    My '08 was very loose from the factory also, and had it tightened-up at the first service. Big improvement to stability--no wobble, but the bearing needs tightening again at 63,000 miles.

    What is the special tool you had to make?
  12. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    The older Japanese bikes was frame flex in most cases.
  13. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    Pulled the manual for my bike. Test is different. Starts with front tire aimed straight ahead. push the fender slowly to one direction until bars turn on their own to that direction (fallaway). Re-center bars to straight ahead, repeat in other direction. measure distance between the "fallaway" points. Should be 1-2" Caution: do not use a magic marker on the fender to mark points.
  14. eieio4tn

    eieio4tn Active Member

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    my pops is anal about tire pressure...
    wants to weigh his ladie passengers and stuff.
    i keep both bikes charged up with nitrogen, it helps
    maintain a constant tire pressure regardless of temp's.
    my $.02
  15. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    I've rode FL touring bikes sense 2001 and had em all over 100, put em through sweeping corners at high speeds and have never experienced any wobble. Keep the tire pressure at spec and don't mix different manf. tires.:banghead:
  16. alex the dog

    alex the dog Active Member

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    True about the tire inflation. Low pressure could cause a wobble at any speed, although I once rode nearly 30 miles on a flat rear Dunlop tire. Kept it below 35 mph and felt OK as long as I was going straight.

    I bet the guy had a flat or very low rear tire to lose it at that speed. There isn't a design flaw that causes a wobble....just lack of maintenance. But the media loves to jump on a story like that... just like run-away Toyotas.

    Cal. Highway Patrol was given 50 BMW's to use for 2 years for FREE. The State is broke, so, don't you think they love those FREE BMW's! Honda did the same with 20 ST1300's to use for FREE. You won't see that part of the story though. Honda and BMW will use this in their advertising: "CHP Switches From Harley to (take your pick)"!!!
    Kawasaki did it in the 1980's.
    I've personally tested FLH's for stability at 120-130 mph without any drama. V-Rods up to 160 feel solid. Every bike brand will wobble at high speed if tires are under-inflated and steering neck is too loose. Simple lack of proper maintenance will kill you.
  17. Sleepy

    Sleepy Well-Known Member

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    some folks have observed some less than confidence inspiring handling traits of the rubbermount FL's over the years. Not the kind of bike I'd want to be throwing around at 10-10ths or 9-10th's...lots of slop with the flexi frame and the rubbermounts..the latest generation has addressed a lot of these issues but the geometry doesn't lead well to high speed stability. The tru track has tightened up the back end of my bike but I have a 1990 Yamaha RZ 350 that feels much more composed at 100 miles per hour in the twisties than my Electra Glide does
  18. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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  19. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I made one of these, without the handle,
    there is a tech PDF on what you need to do I'll have to locate
    it, basically got some aluminum rod from Home Depot.

    took the bench grinder to one end and narrowed the tips to get them
    to the shape of the stock tool, then you need to slightly bend the tool up by the tip

    you put the tip in under the upper triple tree, hook the tabs
    on the locking nut and tap with a hammer, checking fall away
    after each adjustment until it's correct...

    Toolmonger Blog Archive Harley Neck-Bearing Adjustment Tool

    The HD Service Bulletin is M-1246 Neck Bearing Adjustment and you can get a copy of it below as I attached the document and it shows how ot make the tool.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 20, 2011
  20. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Had a 1500 Goldwing that would wobble really bad if you took your hands off the bars. All it was, was the neck bearings were loose on the front. Set it to the proper spec and wallah no more wobble.

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