1. After 20+ years it's time to pass the torch. If you are interested in acquiring this forum please contact support@cv-performance.com for details. Any spam will be reported and blocked.
  2. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

Exhaust Reversion.

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by Roadster guy, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Roadster guy

    Roadster guy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    New Brunswick, Canada
    I read a recent post reply awhile ago and "exhaust reversion" was mentioned. Can anyone here explain this term, it's cause, and corrective actions to take to eliminate it? I do not think it is the problem I have with my Sporty, but would like to know more about it.
  2. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    6,711
    Likes Received:
    408
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I'll give it a try. Just as it implies it's the exhaust gases or pulse reversing towards the engine. From what I know the most common way a regular tinkerer causes this is by modifying his exhaust to flow more freely and going too far towards more freely. Or by putting larger pipes on the engine that what came with it. The diameter of the pipe is determined by the expected flow of the exhaust gases. If the gas pulse enters a larger pipe, the pulse looses momentum and can be sucked back towards the engine. Torque Cones are available to help eliminate this effect ( besides modifying the cams, valves etc ). The cones are installed into the pipe at the exhaust port. They speed up the exhaust pulse by forcing it thru the smaller diameter of the cone.
    There are other brothers on this site that could correct me if I have it wrong.
  3. Roadster guy

    Roadster guy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Would the smaller diameter cone affect the exhaust note?
  4. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    18,516
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Oregon
    Here is what I found.

    • REVERSION
    Reversion is simply the exhaust gases momentarily flowing backwards during the overlap phase of the camshaft at low cycling rates. During the overlap phase the engine is on the exhaust stroke and the piston is pushing out the last of the exhaust gases. Prior to reaching top dead center the intake valve begins to open. At low cycling rates the intake charge and the exiting exhaust pulse have yet created any momentum. Thus the piston pushes some spent exhaust gas into the intake manifold. This is why engines with big camshafts idle and sound radical. The exhaust pulses shoot up into intake manifold causing a major disturbance. The cylinders receive an uneven mixture of air, fuel and spent exhaust gas. The piston then reaches top dead center and begins the intake stroke. At this point both valves are open, in fact the exhaust valve in some cases may not shut for another 50 degrees of crank rotation. During this 50 degrees of crank rotation the piston literally draws from both the intake and exhaust valves causing the exhaust gases will momentarily reverse. At high cycling rates the inertia of the incoming intake charge and the out going exhaust pulse keep the gases flowing in the proper direction. Not a problem until you add water into the exhaust stream. Concerning headers, reversion can be severe enough to add water to oil (milky oil), rust valve seats, even stall the engine. This effect only happens at idle, but engines encounter their greatest reversion pulse at shut down.
  5. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Hobgood, N.C.
    And this is why, (or so I've been told) that on a kick start motor with custom (or drag) pipes, one has to "clean out" any gases that may remain in the combustion chamber before attempting to start it. Makes it easier to start with less kicks.

    The clean out process is simple. First, you hold the throttle all the way open with the ignition off and kick the motor over a few times, clearing out any gases. Then, choke the motor, give it some gas (a couple blips), turn the ignition on and kick until it starts. Should only take one, two, or three kicks at the most if motor is in tune. The clean out is usually only necessary when the motor is cold.

    Any of you that have had a kick start bike know what I'm talking about LOL.
  6. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Cape Breton NS,Canada
  7. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Cape Breton NS,Canada
  8. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Hobgood, N.C.
    Good links, Lucifer, though the info isn't conclusive LOL. I suppose the debate could go on forever. Experimentation is the best way, at least for this garage mechanic, to get the most out of one's pipes. In one of the links you posted, it said that factory pipes were at best a compromise in performance, looks, etc.

    Truth is, all pipe designs are a compromise. Depends what you want. I sacrificed a little performance in favor of looks and sound, but think I gained some of it back because my bike is so light. JMHO.

    Exhaust reversion has little effect on Tattoo's or my bobber because they are 300 - 400 lbs. lighter than most big bikes. For those who need to extract every last HP from a heavy touring bike, it makes good sense to upgrade the exhaust system. Again, JMO.
  9. Roadster guy

    Roadster guy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Thanks for all the replies.
  10. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Actually reversion applies regardless of bike weight.
  11. djl

    djl Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Every four stroke motor sees reversion to some degree; some worse than others depending on the motor configuration. FLHTBiker's explanation is a good one; same cycle in marine motors as well. Cam overlap and lobe separation angle are major contributors to reversion. Larger displacement motors are more susceptible to reversion; the bigger they are the more they suck. Some of the negative effects of reversion can be mititgated via the configuration of the exhaust system but if cam overlap is 260* and LSA is 120*, reversion will be a factor to contend with.

    [​IMG]
  12. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    12,545
    Likes Received:
    10
    hey joshbob!!!!! gota make sure the gas is off also.......or ya fill the cylinder up with fuel......aka flooding!!!! lol lol
  13. Tomflhrci98

    Tomflhrci98 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    There is also a great video on the S&S website about it with drag pipes and they show you dyno charts after they stick the bolt in the end too. Its the second video in the instructional video series.
  14. Roadster guy

    Roadster guy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Saw the SnS vid on youtube, it was very cool
    l
  15. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Hobgood, N.C.
    :rolleyes:.

Share This Page