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hard starting electra glide

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by superfly, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. superfly

    superfly Member

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    I have a 02 electra glide with a 95" kit done and andrews TW37 cams,stock starter. Starts fine when cold but when the engine is hot for example stop for gas it does not want to start awful grinding sound anb bacfires through the breather. Does eventually start and once it's running its all good anyone have any thoughts.
  2. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    How old is the battery??Check cables, both ends for clean and tight contacts and the cables are in good shape,then solenoid for arc buildup,then maybe starter clutch.Did you raise compression when you did the top end??
  3. kenfuzed

    kenfuzed Administrator Staff Member

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    If this is a carbureted model check that fuel is not overflowing the bowl (stuck or worn float valve). This would cause fuel to wash down your cylinders when stopped and during starting there is little lubrication and the piston rings would grind until oil reached them again. You should smell the excess fuel if this is related to the problem.

    The grinding could also be other lubrication related problems or valve related. I would be weary of riding this too much until I found the source.
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Low battery would do this, it might be strong enough when cold but not hot, so have it checked.

    Other thing is to check the cranking compression, you might be with your combo in a very high cranking compression, when cold the engine fires over but on hot restarts you get kick back.

    IIRC I seem to have heard of people having that issue with the 37B and certain combos. Put in Compression releases to resolve it or change cams.

    Next time you go for a quick restart don't touch the throttle, part of this is the introduction of fuel to a hot cylinder combined with big cranking compression and bam pre-ignition and backfire, just bump the starter once with your thumb, maybe twice, get the engine to rotate, then press the starter.

    Also check your ignition, if it has a delay spark option, select it, that way the engine rotates before firing the plugs.
    Lucifer likes this.
  5. Marc1340

    Marc1340 Active Member

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    If the battery checks fine, I have done 3 starter clutches in my starter since new, its a 1996 RK. (always keep one on the shelf) Most of the time the Starter clutches I changed it was because it just spun in place, did not engage. the 2nd one I replaced was a hard clunk and then just spin. The last one I replaced I also replaced the Output Shaft and seems to work a lot better than the other changes, but it has been only 6 months since the last change.......got another on the shelf just in case. Keep us update and let us know how you make out and good luck.
  6. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    If you hav a multi meter check voltage on the green starter wire
  7. superfly

    superfly Member

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    Thanks for the info I'll have to do some looking around and yes the compression got bumped up with the work that has been done just checked about a week ago and 185 on both
  8. superfly

    superfly Member

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    One bike shop told me that I should be looking at high torque starter and higher output battery. Has anyone used or using high torque starter whats the thoughts on that
  9. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    HD battery puts out 405 cranking amps plenty of power and the stock starter can handle your 95, it's doing 110s, 120R's 117, 107's all over the country. It's the combination of all the other stuff behind the starter (and in front) that is causing your issue.

    I ran a stock HD starter on my SNS 124 with way more compression than you
    10 Years, on a stock starter and jackshaft moving a 124, and prior to that a 95 with Wood TW-6H 590 lift 240 duration cams and 10 to 1 pistons with no compression releases. Bad to the bone but a bitch on hot restarts.

    The problem with a bigger starter is they require more juice, to get more juice you have to buy a bigger battery, then you need wires etc, it just drains your wallet its the high dollar cost solution to your problem.

    The 37B is famous for what you have going on, it's a good cam but if it's not matched up with the right pistons you get detonation and kick back... I'm guessing you have the flat top 95 inch 10 to 1 pistons right?

    The combination is the problem, so either 1) change cams (get some with releases or different grind) 2) compression releases in the heads. To me the cams is the no brainer, easy to do, also put travel limiters in your lifters (presuming you replaced them with the cams) this helps keep lifters from collapsing from thin hot oil and closing a valve when the valve should be open.

    Again, compression releases or cams with releases (SNS) built in to the cams.

    I'll detail the testing and work you can do yourself to see if the electrics are good but in the long run this isn't going away with a "bigger starter" That's the old brute force solution, and you'l still have hot soak and kickback, you might just bust the middle of the clutch pack or hurt the compensator or jack shaft.

    E-lectrcal:

    First is make sure you have good connections and volts going across the wires get a digital meter, unhook the green (solenoid) wire from the starter, ground the meter and put the red wire to green, press the start button, see how much power is coming through (volts) if you have sufficient volts good, if not start looking for whats draining power, spot lamps, high beam, radio, etc. Turn them off when starting.

    Now be sure you have a good ground going from the battery to the frame AND a second ground going directly to the top bolt on the starter at the back of the primary. A good ground will make a ton of difference, check connections make sure the battery is getting a good ground.

    Same for power, make sure the cables good, check power to starter that red wire is hot, so set meter, ground it and then touch the red lead to the starter, see what volts you are getting.

    Doesn't matter if you put in a big balls all ass starter if you can't get the power
    to the stock starter.

    So change the wires if they are old and brittle, NAPA sells ground and power wires that are already terminated in different lengths.


    Starting hot bike:

    Now when you go to restart, DO NOT twist the throttle, ever, this makes it worse
    just bump the start button lightly, get the engine rotating a bit, then press the start button, this will work most of the time to get rid of the kick back.

    Solving problem so you don't have to screw with it anymore:

    Change the cams. This will probably be the best way get rid of the 37b's yeah the shop guys will say just put on a bigger starter but that's a bandaid on problem it doesn't solve the issue.
    or, Ppll the heads take them to a shop and have manual compression releases put in this will solve the problem.

    Stock HD starters are very tough and they draw way less power requirements from the electrical system than aftermarket starters and that means less cost to you and more stock parts.

    JMO don't drop $500 on a new starter, wires, and another $200 on battery then labor

    BTW SNS makes a 510 lift mild street cam with compression releases built into the cams. Works great I ran the 585 on my 107, buddy runs them on his 107, never an issue with hot restart.

    http://www.sscycle.com/go-fast-showcase/motorcycle-engine-components/easy-start-cams/

    Google hot restart andrews 37B

    https://www.google.com/#q=andrews 37b cam hot restart
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  10. superfly

    superfly Member

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    ok thanks did some checking things out and going with the easy start but not sure of what grind to use
  11. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    510 EZ Start cams from SNS would be same as tw37B
    for grind but it has built in releases.

    I would contact SNS talk to tech, it's free and give them
    the details about the build and the hot restart situation
    and that you are considering their EZ start cams so you
    don't have to pull the heads to have releases put in to help.

    Remember you want the EZ start they have the SNS 510 and SNS 510 ez

    Here is a link to the chain drive ez start cams for early TC models
    Call SNS and talk to the tech people and see which cams they recommend.

    When you are ready to do it call Phil at CA Phils in KS he is an SNS dealer
    tell him you are on Bike -Talk and know me and he will get you a better
    than street price. 785 243 9991

    Link
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    BTW you could contact Andrews as well, I would bet they
    steer you to the 54 they make for your bike. SNS is probably the 551
  13. superfly

    superfly Member

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    All that sounds good I think I'm leaning toward towards the 551 ez start
  14. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Its a good option, they also have a cam plate upgrade kit, that gets rid of the old tensioner system for the new one, which is much better, did you do your own work?

    Do you have adjustable pushrods in the engine ?

    A cam swap will be pretty easy, talk to SNS about whats
    going on with the current build and what they think, they
    are good people.

    Don't forget to call phil on the cams either way he's a forum member
    and gives us good deals.
  15. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    185 psi is not overly high pressure, HRKs advice is excellent as usual...You didn't say how old the battery is, could be as simple as the battery getting tired,as a comparison I have a TW21 in a 95" and pressures are 200-and 205 psi and in year 3 with the Deka battery,I had to thumb the start button a few times on hot starts,but the first 2 years with it fully charged I didn't have a problem with kickback. You don't need a hi-output starter either,my next battery I think I'm going to go with the Yuasa GYZ32HL 500CCA
    This is it as Drag Premium at Canadas Motorcycle
    https://www.canadasmotorcycle.ca/drag-specialties-premium-performance-battery.html
  16. superfly

    superfly Member

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    ok I'm not sure how old battery is I did load test it and passed but I have a new one here I should try it and see what happens
  17. superfly

    superfly Member

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    Yes HRK I do my one work and as for the pushrods they are adjustable and should give phil a call
  18. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Change the battery first and make sure you have a spare ground to starter direct from battery ground post. If this solves it you are good to go


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  19. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Check your PM's here on the board, sent you a message.
  20. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    Stock starter is fine .buy a good starter clutch fresh batt it will spin that thing like a sowing machine .I ran a stock starter on my deuce 225 psi and my bagger 205 psi never had an issue with a stock starter .make sure the voltage drop on the ground while cranking is less than half a volt ! If not replace the cable. What's up fellas!

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