1. After 20+ years it's time to pass the torch. If you are interested in acquiring this forum please contact support@cv-performance.com for details. Any spam will be reported and blocked.
  2. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

Shovelhead spewing oil on the ground.

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by Tommyc, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    Hi guys!
    My old 1983 shovel is spewing oil on the ground when it hasn't been started for a while (a week or more).
    I think it is because oil is seeping past the check valve ball in the oil pump and into the crankcase. When the motor is started is expells the oil out the crankcase vent line onto the ground.
    Am I correct and if so how do I fix the problem?
    New oil pump or just new spring, new ball or maybe just a good clean job?
    Thanks for your help gentlemen.
    (haha gentlemen, yeah right!) :roflmao:

    Attached Files:

  2. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Cape Breton NS,Canada
    They all do that:roflmao: It's seeping past the check ball...no biggie...happens when they sit for a while...you don't need a new pump but maybe the spring is getting tired with age(like all of us;))check ball and spring is pretty cheap,even at a dealers... a good cleaning wouldn't hurt either
    Here's a tip from Big Boyz on how to resurface a check ball seat
    68-99 Oil Pump Check Valve Repair - Big Boyz Head Porting
  3. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    Excuse me?!?
    My spring is not tired from age at all sir~!
    When warmed up properly my spring gets very sringey and erected with plenty of firm springey type action~! It can be strectched and compressed, preferebly in rapid succession, and still spring back with very firm response. My ball is good too!
    Maybe you would like to look at it yourself?
    I can send you a photo.
    Just kidding Guy, thanks for the info.
    That is pretty much what I expected to hear. I am gonna buy new springs and a ball too. Cleaning and replacing should fix the problem.
    C-ya!
  4. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Cape Breton NS,Canada
    :roflmao::roflmao: That's OK...I'll take your word on it:roflmao:

    A few pics of what the spring goes in would be fine though:D;)
  5. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    Yeah Buddy!! I might get kicked off the site tho....
    How's this pic for ya! Can you say Boiiiioiiiinnnnnng!!!

    Attached Files:

  6. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    12,545
    Likes Received:
    10
    it aint leakin, it is marking its spot!!!!!!!!!!!:D\

    good info. all the older models do that. correct terminology is "wet sumping".
  7. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    Should new springs a good cleaning cure the problem?
    My other bike does not do that but it has a SNS pump. They prolly fixed that problem. That's why they cost $320!
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    basically the older you get the more you drip.....

    Roto rooter time.

    Open up the cover, change the spring and ball
    and fix the seat as described.
  9. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    Thanks, I will do. New parts are on order.
  10. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    12,545
    Likes Received:
    10
    be sure to do the seat also. new springs and ball on old seat.....same ol' problem....
  11. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    I cannot acces that link here at work. How do I reseat the ball? I think it was something like sandpaper on a stick that was spon around on the seat to smooth it out? Correct?
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    From 1968 to 1999 the oil pumps are all pretty much the same in respect to the check valve. The check valve is used to keep the oil in the oil tank when the engine isn't running. When the engine is running there is oil pressure that opens the check valve and allows the oil to flow through the engine. If the check valve wasn't there, all the oil in the oil tank would flow into the lower end of the engine. Then when you start the engine it blows it out the breather. This is called Sumping. If you let the bike sit over the winter and oil drains past the check valve, when you start it in the spring it will blow the oil out the breather. This is somewhat ok. It is when you let the bike sit for a couple hours or a day and it does this that it is a problem. My shovel used to do this. There were times when it would blow 1/2 quart of oil out the breather.

    There is an old school "fix" where you take a drift and hammer and hit the check ball once firmly then replace the ball. This is suppose to seat the ball. I never cared much for working on my oil pump with a hammer.

    Now this is a Brand New S&S oil pump and it should not be doing this. So off the oil pump came so I could figure out what was happening. What I found was a casting defect on the check ball seat. It had a small depression right across the seat. This was enough to be the cause of my problem.

    There are tools specifically for cutting the seat. That adds time and money to the repair. Here is how I did it.

    In this picture you see the oil pump body. The red arrow (1) shows the direction of pressurized oil flow. Note that hole leads directly to the check valve. Red arrow number 2 indicates where the check ball is installed into the pump body. It has a spring that presses the ball onto the seat, just above arrow number 1. When the oil is pressurized it lifts the ball off the seat and flows to the engine.

    [​IMG]
  13. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    This is looking down into the oil pump body where the check ball goes. The red arrow (3) points to the check ball seat.

    [​IMG]

    The check ball measures .375" (3/8" Bearing).

    [​IMG]
  14. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    An EVO pushrod has round ball end that can be used as a lapping tool.

    [​IMG]


    The ball end also measures .375"

    [​IMG]
  15. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Place the pump body in a vice with the top up. Note the vice has soft jaws and the oil pump body is protected further with a soft towel. Only tighten the vice enough to hold the part, do not damage the pump surfaces.

    [​IMG]

    Next we need some lapping compound. I used a fine grit that would be used for lapping in valve.

    [​IMG]


    I dip the end of the pushrod in the lapping compound. You don't want an excessive amount but it should be coated fairly well.

    [​IMG]

    Place the pushrod into the pump body and rotate.

    [​IMG]

    Place one hand on each side move them back and forth. After a 3 or 4 swipes lift the pushrod a little and set it back down and do 3 or 4 more. Repeat this 4 or 5 times.

    [​IMG]
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Remove the pushrod and wipe the lapping compound off the end. Look closely at the wear pattern. You want an even wear pattern so you know you are getting the entire check ball seat. If it is just a hairline only the very edge of the seat was touched.

    [​IMG]

    Clean the lapping compound out of the oil pump body and inspect the seat. If you are unsure of the seat you can use a blue dye to mark the seat and repeat the process. Then when you clean it out you should be able to clearly see the condition of the seat.

    [​IMG]
  17. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    south Florida
    That's what I thought I read. Basically you are reconditioning the seat where the ball sits so it creats a good seal around the ball.
    I understand now.
    Thanks for the info HRKing!
  18. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    just a copy and paste away LOL

Share This Page