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Stage 1 upgrade question

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by dmassey, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    I want to increase the performance on my 09 Heritage but I like the looks of the stock mufflers better than any of the slip ons. I drilled 1" holes in the baffles which gave a much better sound without making me (or my wife) deaf and a bit more power & torque. V&H sent me map FP-0602 for my mufflers, a fuel pack and a K&N filter. Anybody out there used this setup or map? Does it sound right?
    Thanks
    Danny
  2. HarleysLR

    HarleysLR Active Member

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  3. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Thanks HarleysLR. I'll check out the sound tomorrow at work - they'll love that. The sound card is out on my home computer. Have these folks done any muffler work for you? Were you pleased with the sound/performance? I just don't want to wind up with a bunch of parts laying around. The last bike I had, I did a Stage 1 on and now up in my attic I have a full set of pipes with cat converter, breather and some carb parts. Thinking about putting them on ebay. Anyhow thanks for the tip!!
  4. HarleysLR

    HarleysLR Active Member

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    I have talked to them and plan on sending the stock mufflers from the exhaust system I mentioned to them for reworking. The reason I am doing this is because there are not any slip on mufflers available for the FLSTSC stock system. Currently I am running V&H big shots staggered.
  5. 08XModel

    08XModel New Member

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  6. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    By their website, it looks like they deal mainly with the FLH's but I may give a call anyhow.

    How do you like the Cobra Fi2000 tuner? I saw and read about it in J&P. How much performance (power, torque, MPG) difference did you notice?

    Thanks,
    Danny
  7. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Checked out the website and noticed that even if you get a set of the mufflers outright then return your own mufflers, with the credit the price is the same wich is less than about any slip-ons that I've seen. Checked out the sound too - good low groan.

    It was 29 degrees when I left for work this morning which gave me a GREAT opportunity to try the battery powered heated Harley gloves that I got a couple of weeks ago. Set them on Med-hi and man they are wonderful. Probably could have set them a notch lower. All my other bikes were carbed so the fuel injection makes a noticable difference too.

    Danny
  8. HarleysLR

    HarleysLR Active Member

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    yea, I have heated gloves too and they make a big difference, we went for a ride Saturday morning and it was 36 degrees when we left and my hands never even got cool, guy without heated gloves was almost crying...
    If your hands are warm that is have the battle.
    I think the mufflers are worth a try, you can't beat the price.
  9. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I would keep my stock mufflers and put them aside for future epa testing if it
    becomes a problem in TN, also with sound ordinances some cities are putting in place
    it's going to be good to have the stock pipes as they are looking for the factory EPA stamp to be in place.

    Cycle Shack, Khrome Werks HP+ both in tapered give you the stock look, and more sound and better performance

    Both are inexpensive as well..
  10. 08XModel

    08XModel New Member

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    I had to install the tuner because I installed mufflers and stage 1 a/c. The mileage didn't suffer to bad. Still get around 43 mpg. The mufflers and air cleaner helped some with torque but it isn't anything two noticeable. These mufflers give off more heat than the stock ones did. Hoping someday to get a tmax with autotune. The cobra is a cheap way to get along until something better is available. Hope this helps.
  11. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Thanks guys for all the input. Anybody got any comparisons between the Cobra Fi2000R and the V&H Fuelpack?

    Man was it a cool ride to work this AM - 30 degrees - but it was still extremely enjoyable. Supposed to be around 70 this afternoon so it'll be a GREAT ride home. But then any ride on a Harley is a GREAT ride.

    Danny
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I would not buy either tuner, because they are simply fuel modifyers and very limited.
    You'll dump a couple of hundred on either one and not be able to get a good accurate tune.

    You may never add cams, heads, pistons etc, but with those tuners you won't be able to set
    a lot of the things you need like timing, rev limit, etc.

    The original HD SERT (Screaming Eagle Race Tuner) was the best next to the Powercommander.

    The people that made the SERT kept the rights and still sell it under TTS Mastertune, it's way better than the HD SERT, new or old and allows for a lot more modifications to the bike and to the programming of the bike.

    Get either the Powercommander 5 or the TTS Mastertune, with autotune options you set the base map and then the computer learns the engines needs, no need for dynos

    (Although if you do a wild build with mixed parts then a dyno might be needed to setup a decent base tune with any tuner.

    BTW one of the head honchos at TTS is Steve Cole and you can chat with him on HTT.net... Mike Roland of Kuryakyns performance division swears by the TTS.

    JMO

    for 09 TBW -

    1) TTS - MasterTune EFI Programming Software
    2) Power Commander V, Power Comander 5, Powercommander

    Shop around to get the best price.
  13. sarge7

    sarge7 New Member

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    Niether one of the companies mentioned will work on any earlier than 95 models.
    Anybody know if a 95 to 99 Touring muffler set will go on a 93 FLH?
  14. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    hotroadking thanks for the answer. I'll check out the TTS site. One of my Harley friends has had about four Harleys and I think he has the SERT installed on all four and apparently no complaints. The owner of the dealership where I bought my bike said he will bring his bike one Saturday and let me try it. He put some slip ons, a SE Breather and a SERT. Says that after a couple of dyno tunings, he picked up about 10-12 HP and loads of torque. Another question I am wondering about is since the Cobra tuner can only add fuel, how can it increase the MPG? Does it just make the engine more effiencent. Also I notice that on the Fuelpack maps, some of the values are negative (-) settings. Does this subract fuel at a particular RPM range? I would just like to understand these things better. I meesed around wiht performance carbs, etc. on cars for the last 45 years but not a lot of bike fuel experience.

    Again thanks to everyone for the information!
    Danny
  15. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The thing with the newer bikes is the ECM has many options that are available to the tuner and yourself, from injector time, idle RPM, warm up sequence, afr at each throttle position and RPM.

    The cobra and fuelpacks are not bad units, just not as advanced as a TTS Mastertune, and my thoughts are it's better to spend a few bucks more and get the full availability of the TTS or PC5 now, which gives the tuner the ability to do more, and if you add the auto tune options, it will tweak it to the ride as you ride.

    Should you decide to upgrade further (stage 2 horsepoweritis) like a cam, or heads, etc or change something, the TTS and PC5 will have more ability to work with any combination.

    I don't like to pay for something twice.
  16. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Good logic. There's a Harley dealer about 40 miles (Morristown) from home that has the TTS so I have sent them an email about it. I may also make a short run down there. It was actually the first place that I looked at Harleys. Where I bought mine is much closer to where I live.
    Danny
  17. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Drove (it was supposed to rain -but the sun came out about half way there) down to Colbough H-D in Morristown this morning and talked to the dyno operator down there. Talked for a good while and picked up some pretty good info. Any how he gave me the following "turn-key/out the door prices:1. Slip on mufflers (just about whatever brand I wanted, Ness big sucker or HD SE heavy breather, and H-D download - $680, 2. Same first two items with PC5 - $1260 (includes dyno runs) & 3. First two items the same with a Mastertune TTS - $1395 (includes dyno runs).

    How do these prices sound?
  18. HarleysLR

    HarleysLR Active Member

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    If it was me I would shop around, check out prices on the net for the items they want to sell you, Labor is what it is, but you can do a lot of it yourself. I don't know how much a dyno run is, will they do a map for your particular application or just install one they have on record from something previous. Talk to other customers that have similar parts installed on their bike and see what they think. One thing I try to remember is that almost everyone at the local H-D dealerships gets some kind of commission. Let us know what you decide.
  19. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you have a 1/2 socket and a 9/16? and some allen sockets with wrench? Get a tube of Copper anti-seize for the muffler to header fit, slip some inside the muffler where it slips over the header. Easy couple hour job..

    If so you can change those mufflers yourself, it's three bolts per side a rubber mallet helps if they are tight.

    TTS Mastertune can be installed with a laptop and a data cord which you get from TTS, select a base map for stage 1, upload and you are done, add the auto tune and it tweaks itself.

    Air filter, order the ness big sucker, it's basically a K&N and washable with new backing plate.

    Basically thats a stage 1

    For parts order from Jenny at Tri-county HD in Fairfield OH or Zannottis or CHicago HD 20% off every day... No sales tax.. compare prices and shipping.

    or California Phils in Concordia (Indy) will treat you right.

    Find the slip ons you like, Vance and hines, Bub, etc.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  20. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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