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77 Shovel Head, the right cam, also hyd/solid

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by bluejay864, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. bluejay864

    bluejay864 New Member

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    This is a question also about the proper cam for good low and midrange for my 77 FLH 1200. I am looking for opinions on advantages and disadvantages of running a hydraulic cam apposed to a solid lifter. My riding habits are not unique, average, with that jump on it periodically urge that seems to just come out. I average 10- 15,000 miles a year. The way it runs now, seems to me either the lifters are weak, wrong oil viscosity, it just does not want to pull any rpms like my 1975 FXE 1200 with a stock cam and valve train.
    According to what I have read the Andrews A Grind is the cam. Any ideas? Now the next is, Solids/Hyd’s, that’s another question. It is not a major concern to have to adjust the valves every 5 - 10,000 miles. Or, how often would it be? You know that with the hydraulic you can run it till just before it looses power, with the solid, rev, rev, bang!
    Any ideas, questions, theory’s, or stories would be welcome. This is an older mechanic that just wants to enjoy playing and riding, at the same time. Thank you. bluejay864
    bluejay864, Jan 9, 2006
    #1
  3. 81Sturgis

    81Sturgis New Member

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    is your bike stock, drag pipes, carb work ?
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2006
    81Sturgis, Jan 9, 2006
    #2
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I would go hydraulic the odds on one failing is pretty slim and you'll eliminate the need to adjust them at any time like with solids.

    From what I've heard the A grind is a good street cam.

    A little head work, some clean up, get rid of the drag pips a good header with slip ons will do wonders for low end performance, you have a big ol heavy bike with the FL, and it's probably why you feel off from a FXR which is a much lighter chassis.

    Then again maybe you weigh more on the FL too LOL Just like me as we age...

    Consider dumping and points electronics and going to a crane hi-4 ignition, much more reliable and tuneable and another thing you won't have to futz with over time.

    You need to build the bike for TQ on the low end to feel the bike improve it's performance.

    Had a buddy with a 02 FL Dresser, had a SE211 cam which is good for a Dyna Super Sport but sucks in a bagger with a stock motor. I made 80 HP at 5K RPM and he rides from 2200 to 5200 90 % of the time. So a bad cam selection only made bench racing numbers.

    YOu could consider changing out pistons for more compression, dual fire plugs all that cool stuff but for a street ride, some head porting for the street and a good cam, right pipes and igintion and tune the carb the bike should run very well.

    You can also pick up the newer CV carbs from EBay off of a evo or twin cam and adapt them to your bike, better design, easier to get parts for, and probably run better, these will run you $25 to $40 for the carb.

    Someone else here more familiar with Shovels would have to tell you all the details.
    hotroadking, Jan 9, 2006
    #3
  5. bluejay864

    bluejay864 New Member

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    Reply for 81Sturgis

    Stock everything, cam, carb, pipes. Thanks
    bluejay864, Jan 9, 2006
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  6. bluejay864

    bluejay864 New Member

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    Reply to hotroadking

    So the A Grind sounds good. Yes, I planed to clean up the top end and do a little porting over the winter. As far as compression, what about an increase, but still maintain the ability to use pump gas. Any other suggestions? I will look into the Crane HI-4 ignition.
    Is there any information available to what I would need for the CV carburetor change over and or parts? What about an S&S?
    As you said some head porting for the street and a good cam, the right pipes and ignition, and tune the carburetor, the bike should run real good.
    Thank you for your honest opinion.
    bluejay864, Jan 9, 2006
    #5
  7. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    For the street a little pop up in compression isn't going to hurt a lot as long as you keep it reasonable a thinner head gasket will do the trick maybe raise it half a point, if you deck the heads be wary of fit for manifold, I'd find someone in the area that has hopped up your model motor and knows some good TQ combinations for the street on that motor.

    Here is a link to Cranes Ignition page for Shovels this stuff is pretty much bullet proof and easy to install, of course you'll be doing a bit of wiring but it should all come with the kit. (Famous last words right!) Crane Shovel Ignitions

    James Gaskets This is stock thickness, so to raise compression you'd change pistons or deck the heads.

    I'd go through the motor find a gasket kit for the whole deal and freshen up everything.

    In that you're dealing with a specific older model motor I'll give you a link to a very good performance site these guys are heavy into performance at HHT on MSN there is a Shovel specific group.
    hotroadking, Jan 9, 2006
    #6
  8. bluejay864

    bluejay864 New Member

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    Reply to hotroadking

    All this information is very helpful. Thank you for your response. bluejay864
    bluejay864, Jan 10, 2006
    #7
  9. viking

    viking New Member

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    Andrews a grind with solids and a,b grind with hyd.I had them both and had a much crisper throttle with the solids.remember to adjust them with an over night cold engine.
    viking, May 25, 2008
    #8
  10. SPORSTERBOY

    SPORSTERBOY New Member

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    Are All Shovel Motors 1200's, Like A 1200 Sporty, I Know Not The Same Motor But As In Cc,ci.
    SPORSTERBOY, May 26, 2008
    #9
  11. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    yes, same cubic inch.............:)
    chucktx, May 26, 2008
    #10
  12. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    H-D made 1340 cc Shovelheads too. Only reason I know that is from reading thru a long & detailed article on VIN numbers: harley vin

    With respect to the original questions, I looked @ the Andrews specs & the A cam looks pretty good - more overlap than I'd like to see for the street, but that engine is a lot different than the Sportsters I'm used to dealing with.

    As to the Crane HI-4 ignition, I've got one in one application - fairly simple & totally reliable. Got it in 2001, never had a problem with it, the manual for it is good & adjustments are easy to make.

    As to the CV carb or S&S, I've got both & like 'em both, but for a street bike I prefer the CV. Parts are easy to get, not very expensive & the carb is a "set it & forget it" deal. Probably take some time to get the needle, jetting & idle mixture right, but once you do, you don't have to mess with it anymore.

    As to solid or hydraulic lifters, I've got both & the only reason I'd use solids is for an engine that you're going to rev high enough that hydraulics can fail. And I personally hate adjustable pushrods - have to use 'em in one application, but I darn sure wouldn't for a "daily driver" & quality hydraulics like Jim's or Crane should last for years. I've never had a hydraulic lifter failure on a street bike.
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
    Art_NJr, May 26, 2008
    #11

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