1. After 20+ years it's time to pass the torch. If you are interested in acquiring this forum please contact support@cv-performance.com for details. Any spam will be reported and blocked.
  2. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

Advice wanted...new member

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by softail07, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. softail07

    softail07 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Hey everybody, I'm glad to be a part of BikeTalk. I found this website and have really enjoyed reading the articles and tech tips, very informative and I'm learning alot! I have a '07 FXST and my friend has a '07 FXDL. Both are stock and we're both really ready for an upgrade. I plan on getting exhausts, K&N filter and a fuel management system, but I'm a bit confused. V & H sells the FuelPack, Hooker sells their version and then there's the PCIII. Which is better? Also, which do you think would be better for my bike: Hooker Troublemakers, Hooker Forbidden 4 into 1, or V&H Big Radius 2 into 2? The Troublemakers and the Big Radius look very similar, and what do you think about the 4 into 1? In the article, it says to stick to 1 3/4 header openings for stock harley engines, but the Forbidden's headers are 1 3/8 leading to one 3 in. I just want to get the best set up for the money and gain power, not loose it. The website said that the Troublemakers gave an extra 18Hp and 5.5ft-lb torque to a '01 Fatboy.
    Thanks
  2. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Welcome
    so the power bug has bit,
    one of the key things to have in mind is that your bike has a low rpm high tq motor, that means, unless you spend a boatload of cash, getting high HP numbers isn't really the goal, it's high TQ numbers where you ride, 2400 to 5500 RPM mostly between 2800 and 3400.

    Also I've bought every doohicky and pipe, and I have them all bolted on my Heritage, based on the advertisements I now have 63,756 HP:D

    Point is, ad claims are pretty much worthless, you never know who's put what on with which pipe and did they tune it, are the pipes now on with a stage 1 air filter being compared to a stock pipe with stock tune and stock filter.

    Having said all that and answered none of your questions.
    Of the ones you listed I'd go Powercommander, and go for the V(5) if it will work with your bike, it's the newer model.

    The advantage of the Powercommanders over the others is you can load a map, change it, or dyno tune it for perfect accuracy, including ignition timing, set areas for better fuel mileage and/or power. Further you add some cams and headwork next (you will it's part of the power virus you get with the first bug bite) all you have to do is tune the Powercommmander. The others simply add fuel they do no timing or you cannot reduce fuel in specific areas.

    There is another option from TTS Mastertune, it's the company that made the old SERT (Screaming Eagle Race Tuner) which is a great program as it lets you tune the actual ECM on the bike, new maps, timing everything. JMO it's a great tool it has the ability to add 02 sensors and self tune the bike as well. A great tool.

    Pipes are subjective, any are better than stock, usually, A 2-1 like the thunderheader or Supertrapp 2-1, ProPipe, all will outperform the ones you're looking at, usually true dual type pipes kill the bottom end off and then run hard up top, but unless you drag race or spend all the time over 5000 RPM what's the point (other than looks and sound) In fact a good set of Khrome Werks or Cycle Shack slip ons will probably beat those pipes on a dyno. It's up to you, looks over power, power over looks,

    As for the Hooker I know one guy running one on his hot 95 inch softail, we haven't see the dyno but it is friggin loud, ie, neighbors hate you, cops look at you loud...

    So theres some more stuff for you to consider...
  3. softail07

    softail07 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Hotroadking, I've definitely been bitten by the power bug and it's expensive to treat! Thanks for the great advice. I was leaning toward the PC, but just needed to hear from someone with more experience. I'll definitely check out the TTS Mastertune and the pipes you suggested. There is alot to consider so I'm sure not going to rush into anything. Thanks again!
  4. mwelych

    mwelych Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    JUst got through visiting a few friends that own a shop in Gastonia, NC. My one bud and possibly the best wrench there, swears by the PCIII. I have a carbuerated m-sickle, so there is no need for me to own one. But a bro of mine owns a 98 bagger with fuel injection, and he is getting a PCIII and our bud is gonna install and adjust for him. THe cool thing is all the different maps for all the different possibilities of exhaust and intakes available. It sold me, and I don't need one... Best of luck wit ya...:)
  5. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    JMO get all your ducks in a row first
    buy what will allow you to make changes (you will)

    Basically you're doing a stage 1

    The Powercommander 3 you want is the PC3USB EX

    Here is a link to the Powercommander 5 for info purposes.

    While you're at it, pop in a Bobby Woods 6-6 cam and advance it 4 degrees...

    Your buddy will wonder why your pipes and air filter are so much better than his, its' a bolt in cam and easy to install.
  6. voodoo1

    voodoo1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    aahhh the slippery slope has started. have fun "upgrading"
    you will like the difference from a stage one upgrade.

    later:cool:
    Voo1
  7. softail07

    softail07 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    mwelych, hotroadking and voodoo1,
    Thanks for the advice and links. I was also checking out the Thundermax automatic tuner, but it's so expensive. I'm going to get the PC3 instead.
  8. duke76

    duke76 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NW Iowa
    You would love the tmax, I do, I cant believe what a difference it made, Todd
  9. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Do this, go PC5, I think it will work with your bike.

    Then, get the base map for the build and then pay the $300 to get it dyno tuned.

    The bike will run better, when you compare the Tmax to the PC5 with Auto Tune to the
    PC3/5 with a dyno tune, you will be within $100.

    Just plugging and playing isn't the key, that's why we've all suggested better tuners than the VH fuel pack which is very limited.

    A good tune will get decent mileage and make very good power, keeping the engine and your butt cooler...

    Now If you get a good base map and pop on the auto tune option for the PC5 or tmax later, when you add a cam, heads, etc it's got a good map to start from and retune the bike for you....

    Like I said put on the parts that can grow with you, the PC3 is good, the PC5 is better...
  10. softail07

    softail07 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Todd, is the tmax software compatible with a Mac computer?
  11. duke76

    duke76 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NW Iowa
  12. bear

    bear New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Iowa
    Just dyno'd mtcy 02 heritage after doing head work, Andrews 510g gear drive cams. 3 7/8" TC pistons + .005", smooth bored oem carb with 190 jet and a 48 jet. Crane HI 4 ignition module with python slash cut pipes and a big sucker air cleaner kit.
    happy with the results. max HP 92.19 with 99.43 max turque


    sent parts to be machined and did all work in the back garage.
  13. VYBR8ER

    VYBR8ER New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Valley, CA
    There is a fuel controller that not many people are using yet, Terry Products Terminal Velocity 3. It is a closed loop systen that utilizes the O2 sensors to analyze the exhauast gases and keep the A/F mixture in range at all times. The nice thing is you will never have to go back to the dyno when you make changes to the engine. It is also CARB certified so it has the CA smog cert. Installed a few of these lately on bikes that had been modified past the run of the mill downloads and they worked very well. Didn't dyno the bikes to see what the top numbers were, but who rides WFO all of the time?
  14. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    9,926
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Alvin TX
    vyber8er do you have a link for terry products ? & are they just for the newer bikes ie 08-09?
  15. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    12,545
    Likes Received:
    10
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    FWIU the Terry is fuel adding only, no timing, so it's not a full on tuner like Powercommander, etc....
  17. kenfuzed

    kenfuzed Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    10,513
    Likes Received:
    140
    Location:
    Las Vegas NV
    Just my 2 cents... there have been many complaints on this forum and other forums about the earlier Terminal Velocity products from TC. Personally if you want a complete tuning solution that utilizes the closed loop O2 sensors I would go with the ThunderMax w/autotune.
  18. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    9,926
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Alvin TX
    thank's for the link I have a pc3 on my e glide was just looking to read up on things T max is out of my wallets reach , the pc 3 has done a real fine job for 3-4 yrs now had it dynoed once & it still works :cool:
  19. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    When you do this stuff you have to look at the total costs.

    A PC 3 at $300 plus a single proper dyno tune at $300 - $600 out of pocket
    even if you get both at a discount it's about $500 to be done correctly

    You won't get the full ride out of a plug and play PC3 without the dyno tune.

    PC5 with AutoTune, TMax or TTS Mastertune is an option for "do it yourselfers" eliminates the need to dyno tune for the most part. So you forgo the $300 to the tuner that you need with a PC3

    You can buy the PC5 and Tmax without the Auto Tune, setup a map and then ride add the auto tune later.

    The TTS Mastertune lets you map and tune the HD ECM directly so no add on equipment... It includes its tuning sensors etc so it does most of it for you, making you the "on road" dyno operator.
  20. voodoo1

    voodoo1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    Won't know what I will ever do if I end up fuel injected. all This flashing,loops,sensors,dyno'ing:eek:. I watch alot of buddies's changing all their stock settings, most a paying some one to do it. I have told them of HRKs reccomendations of the PC5 as well as the PC3s. I like helping the "do it yourselfers" on the PC5. Like HRK stated something about the "popping" I do hear it from the PC5 fellas as much as the pc3s. Enjoy!!

    Later :cool:
    Voo1

Share This Page