Another push rod question

I started a thread earlier about a noise problem that I am having. I still think it is the push rods. Long story short I tried a different set of push rods but they where not any better. I am ruling out the lifters at this time because the bleed down rates are consistent on all of them. Besides if I had a lifter problem I would think that they would make more of a clatter throughout a wider RPM range. I did pull them out and checked the bearings. All looks good and they are new.

Anyway my question is: Can I put in a set of standard non adjustable (stock) push rods??

The cam is a Andrews EV27 (stock base circle diameter), however the lifters are not stock HD, I think they are SS stock replacement. I don’t have any information on how different manufacturers design lifters. Do all lifters have the same cam to pushrod seat dimension as stock lifters? I need to be careful since it would only take a lifter to be 100 thousands off and I damage the engine.

I already have the tank off since I decided to replace the 8 year old 55K mile injectors.

All comments are appreciated.
Tom
98 EVO, RK, FI, Stg2, 9.5:1, V&H, PC3USB,

Hey Tom,

Is this a new noise? New EV27?

If it is a new install you might just be hearing the typical EV27 ticking noise. EV27 cams have a very fast ramp and it slaps the valve open quickly in order to get the best cylinder fill possible. This was an almost continuous source of questions about the EV13, 27 cams. The EV23 actually addresses this with a different ramp design. A bagger makes the noise seem louder.

If the cam has been in a while and this is a new noise, there are several things to look at.
Rocker arm bushings do wear and the resulting slop can create a ticking sound much like an out of adjustment push rod.
The tappet screen can be blocked or restricted and the lifters might not be getting enough oil when hot and one may be slightly collapsing. Look at the oil flow diagrams in your service manual and you can see what I mean.

There are a few other things that can cause noise depending on engine wear. Worn lifter blocks, worn cam bushing, loose fit on cam gears etc.

I used to run straight 50w in the summer time and it really quieted down the valve train.

Thanks CD

Hey CD,
How ya feelling? Haven’t heard from you in a while. I hope you been just out riding.

I’m actually chasing two problems the first is a noise that sounds like a rattle while decelerating with closed throttle at 3rd gear 30 mph. Only at that rpm and sounds like it is coming from the valves (I can get it at other gears too). The engine was rebuilt about 4,000 miles ago and this noise is getting worse. Everyone that has listened to it says push rods hitting the tubes. I have aluminum RevTechs in there now and I tried the Whittier taperlites. Both are really the same diameter and the taperlites where worse.

I know the gear to gear sound, (I had that years ago and had to have the original gear pressed onto the cam) so I know it isn’t that. It would be great to put in stock push rods to eliminate the pushrods as a possibility. This is going to take process of elimination.

The other problem I am having is a vibration that develops after about ½ hour of riding. I hope I’m not just getting soft, but I was on my way to Tahoe and after about 130 miles up 395 I had to turn around. It was not comfortable and drove me crazy. Before I headed back home I checked the tappet screen while it was hot. It all looked good. It also seemed like it lost power. This is why I am going through and changing the injectors and both temp sensors, both stabilizers, fuel filter, fuel regulator, intake gaskets. But, if I can get rid of the noise and I can concentrate on this vibration. Also, you mentioned worn lifter blocks. I had them out and did not notice anything but I may work on that again later.

I know, it sounds like I have a real problem child here. I may throw the child out with the bath water and get a new engine or change it over to a carburetor. Both these operations will have to take a bank loan, but I’m not giving up… it’s the only thing I live for anymore. If I can't ride then I might as well spend my time in the garage tinkering.

I plan to go back to the straight 50w too.

Thanks for your help and I hope your eyes didn't glaze over reading about my problems.

Tom

Check you rocker arm end play too. That side to side movement of the rockers (if more than about .005") will sound very much like lifter noise and also goes through the harmonics that you describe. I had a similar problem that was finally isolated to the rockers (roller) and we had to square the ends of the rockers on a lathe to prevent continued uneven wear, tolerance growth and noise. The SE forged rocker carrier or supports are nicely bored for the rocker shafts but are not spot faced where the rockers work, so they wear open quickly and the rockers slap side to side. Tick, tick, tick...

Drop the puchrod tubes, grab the upper end of the pushrod and very forcefully pull and push on the pushrods in and out. You will hear/feel a definite clunk or tap if the rocker moves too much.

The shims to reduce this rocker slop are available from V-twin for shovel head rockers...or make your own from tempered steel shim stock.

Your vibration sounds like a leaky intake. It continues to get worse with the growth of the engine with heat. That's an easy fix....pain in the ars, but easy to repair. That is a VERY common problem that is most often misdiagnosed as something serious....I'll bet your engine doesn't quite run as well as you would expect either - right? Leaky intakes cause all sorts of running problems with EFI engines too, including vibrations that come and go.

Bill C.

Hey Clem, Ken,

Thanks guys. Great info. I'll be rereading your responses as I work on this.

I have a bunch of stuff I'm changing and then I better get it all back together to see if I improved anything. Since the rocker covers are off I'll check the rockers like you said.

Problem I'm having now is I have been traveling so much I can't find the time to finish.

The other funny thing I was thinking about was I just changed the rear tire. I think I'll take it back off and have them recheck the balance and I might as well do the front too since I could have lost a weight in either wheel and that might be part of the vibration problem.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,
Tom