Auto Manufacturers

I put the unions up there with all the sports players, way over payed for what they do , The union can only pay there members what the companies will agree to & the unions reps hold on to there privates till they give in or close there doors / go on strike & then the members are out of luck , here in texas we are a right to work state ,I worked for a out fit & the union went on strike ,I stayed working & in just a few months all the union guys where looseing there cars/truck as in repoed right from there picket line ,& one of the guys came back to work & said to hell with them , he said they payed him a small amout of money & the next line he had to go in was A guy saying he needed to pay his dues & he had to feed his wife & kids , but the union wanted there money first

unions were usefull in their day..........today they are a drain on everyones pocket book.....but, they are to large and powerful to get rid of.

First the bailout was done to keep the Unions happy with the demorats,
Unions support the demorats with big money for campaign advertising, while
the workers, who may or may not vote the Union line, are paying for these ads.

Second the Unions contracts, negotiated of course under good times, the benefits, pensions, etc are killing the companies. Same for medicare and ssi, there are not enough workers coming into the jobs to support the debt these Unions forced on companies. GM and Chrysler had to sign the agreements or "STRIKE" as they are always done during good times. Unions never come back to the company unless asked during bad times.

THird, The Obama Administration forced the deal that gave away HUGE amounts of GM and Chrysler to foreign companies (FIAT for Chrysler) and the Unions. Why do these Unions get stock in the new re-emerged companies and all the white collar workers get nothing, (simple they are not union therefore they don't get the "deal") also what about the millions of American retirees that had stock in GM, or were bondholders, gone, lost, Obama's minons wiped them out, and gave back to the Unions, and the government.

So you can believe the bull hype from the liberal press, but the fact is Obama raped the car industries shareholders and bondholders, who, under US Bankruptcy law should have been repaid by the sale of the company assets...

Instead white collar and retirees paid to give Union people jobs.

The fact is there were not that many people when you total up the payroll of Chrysler and GM to add to the unemployment pool.

Ford would have picked up MAJOR market share (which they have to some extent) as a
non government owned, non bailout, fully American Capitalist Company.

In addition the imports would have picked up the volume of GM and Chrysler, many workers would have gone to work for them, new plants in non union states, new suppliers in "non union" states.

It was a Union butt kiss big time...

I will no longer by a GM or a Mopar, ever, and I used to hate fords, always a gm guy.

I have three Fords now, and I'm going to trade and buy two more... FORDS.

I support the company that didn't need no wait, TAKE Obamas government handout.... and they managed the company properly so they didn't NEED Obama.. Smart, American, Capitalist....

We now have a Ford Taurus, great car and a 07 Dodge Diesel. Next truck if ever will be a Ford. Oh yea, still got my 80 El Camino. Done with Chevy myself and won't buy another Dodge or Chrysler.

And the Obamba boy freaking sheet head

I don't think its completely right to blame all the unions for the down fall of the economy. There have been a lot of contributors to that including the government, the financial institutions with their greed and a whole lot of other factors. Yes the Demo's are unions boys by that I mean they have their hands out to the unions for money. Yea, to many favors to the unions but many others are doing the same thing.
To me Obamba boy wants to ruin this country and with the demo's in office and controlling things were not going to go anyplace but down. Obamba is a lier big time I know he favors the muslim world.:angry:

Johnny no attack at you meant in my post....

I want to be clear when we are discussing Unions we're discussing the top level strategy of Unions, it's management and it's objectives when it comes to the companies they infiltrate.

Not that people that belong to a Union are bad people, any more than someone that is White Collar management is an azz because he wears a suit, those stereotypes have been a staple of pitting Union Blue Collar vs Management and JMO the Union leadership, not unlike Jessie Jackson use those images to incite rifts between the "rank and file of the union" and the "leaders of the corporation"

IMHO Unions are managed and designed to create rifts between workers and management
in order to support the existence of the union, like Jessie Jackson needs a race related incident to fuel his TV views or book or increase his donations the union needs workers to be at odds with management, or there is no need for them to exist.

Are there racists, yes, are there bad managers, yes, are there bad union employees, yes,
but that doesn't mean everyone is a "bad ...... insert job title" person

Unions pitting labor vs the corporate goals have been the downfall of many a company, Eastern Airline, a great airline, the union said they'd break it, and Eastern Folded. Everyone lost jobs...
who won? Union Management... a hallow victory for those unemployed on both sides...

The unions are not completely to blame JMO of course here are a few things re autos and not in any specific order:

1) You, me, and everyone that has ever bought a Japanese car or is going to buy another Rice Ride...
2) Poor Management decisions
3) Inflated Union Pension and benefits contracts (probably a top issue)
4) Better built competition yep for a while the rice cars were built better but remember
at that time they were imported, and non union, and lower cost from Asian labor competing against USA overpaid union labor.

USA cars have about $2500 in Union labor benefits being paid out per car as a cost, much of that for retired workers, closed plant workers etc. The problem is that machines can now do work that was previously man power, ie chassis welding. Robotic, Painting, All the improvements needed to fix quality issues such as replacing high paid workers with Robots that can work 24/7 have lowered costs but also eliminated some jobs.

Plus Robots don't drop bolts in a door and hide them so a customer gets a rattling Chevy Door
in order to support it's Union, the International Robotics Machinist Union. LOL

When you have less workers in the work force, combined with a country where people see nothing wrong with driving a Toyota or Honda, then you create a situation where your benefits costs of living retirees outweighs the ability to create payments into that system, because retirees are outpacing workers..

Unions have a very very large part to play, they know the economy of cars had changed with non union Japanese cars being built in the south, they just kept dragging
GM, Ford and Mopar down the drain.

If they were really concerned about workers they would have done anything and everything
to help the companies get better, better quality, eliminated old or bad workers vs giving them "seniority" and keeping them on the payroll when they hardly work or don't even show up.

IMHO GM should have shuttered every USA plant, and moved all production offshore years ago, breaking the union in the process. Even Closed GM USA and relocated the
headquarters overseas. Taking Tax revenue, jobs, and production out of the USA.

It would have been the message that Washington and the Unions needed..

Henry Ford would never have stood for this and in fact his company didn't...

I have been telling people for years that buying imports ruins our economy and I am sick and tired of hearing that our auto manufactures from this country can't build em as well as the imports.
The Japanese cars were not all that great either years back. All the auto manufactures are building better now.
We as Americans need to support this country first or were doomed for good.

Johnny they were moving to KY, the PA plant was to be closed, very expensive to remodel
and retrofit with new equipment. The union finally gave in because KY offered one heckof a packing including the option to be a non union plant... PA is Union through and through.

In the end the Union had to capitulate or loose the plant.
The economics favor these deals, however you have to understand
no company wants to be in a poor financial and sales position to
have to do this stuff, they'd rather be counting profits and share price
increases...

That depends on the market, one reason they might be making the move is to be able to gain margins in the production that allow them to compete.

A couple hundred Chinese or Taiwanese, whomever, will make your product for next to nothing, compared to the $20 an hour you might have to pay in salary, benefits, taxes, unemployment, insurance to have that same employee here.

Even with shipping costs you can land the item in the US port for half what it costs you to make it hear on a labor basis, it's just economics, the company HAS to look out for itself, if it doesn't it closes, and those few left are unemployed as well as the labor..

No Sales, No Profit, No Jobs....

Unions are only making a wave because Obama's team is a socialist group looking to
garner support, and it's a typical Demorat move.

Just to clarify, you might be a Democrat, and that's fine, the guys in DC,, Demorats..

Pukeloski, InbReid, NosenseBomma. Demorats...