Chopper vs Harley.

G`day everyone,I am having a massive argument with the guys at work about Harleys at the moment.After watching an episode of American Chopper I was telling the boys at work about the harley.They tell me as soon as a Harley is modified in any way ie rake changed on front end it is no longer a Harley but it is a chopper.What do you guys reckon,I still think it is as they still use H/D motors and various other H/D bits and pieces. But the guys think not.
PS I dont know if I posted this in the wrong spot if so just move to correct spot.Cheers

All I know is if ya go and paint yer 57 chevy it's still a chevy, they called em "choppers" way back when cause after ya take a full dresser which was pretty much what everything was and chop all that stuff off maybe put a longer front end on ya had a chopper ya didn't even have to destroy a perfectly good stock frame ta do it, Jesse James didn't invent the word

Optional

G’day Troy-boy, Well a Harley is a Harley. I have a custom with about 50% Harley MoCo parts, and depending what mood I’m in, I’ll call it either a custom or a Harley. You really don’t think anyone REALLY rides those things from “The Paul’s” (American Chopper) do you ? What I mean by that is more than 2 miles from the garage to the bar. The term “Chopper” is from the old-days when you would chop off all or anything you did not REALLY need in order to make it as quick and light as possible. G’Day mate.

New definition of Chopper.

Chopper: Method of amassing large fortunes via marketing what would otherwise be no more than local hero's
Recipient of wealth: See Discovery Channel

I will have to give them a bit of what for when I get to work Monday morning.I have always said that it is still a Harley.And I will prove them wrong. I used OCC as an example,They are darn expensive,even for a friggin beanie it costs a small fortune.I do like the show though.I think Paul Jnr has got some great ideas for the choppers,AHEM i mean harley`s.Just needed to know what was what,and thanks to you guys I can now tell my mates at work that they are the same thing.Cheers guys.

Yep, Yep.

CD.
Now that was funny.

troy boy.
Ya, Paul Jr. does come up with some imaginative ideas, but IMO, anyone with an average IQ, and that has a shop like that to work in and all the tools/machines he has at his disposal, should be able to create a decent bike or two. Maybe I’m just envious, as my shop is my living room. (at least it’s got air-conditioning)

I wouldnt mind having a 1/4 of the tools they have.Would be awesome to get my hands on that sort of machinery.Would make life alot easier with the right tools.And air con would be a plus.

Harley or Not

Here are my two cents on the subject for what it's worth.

I do think the custom bikes built by OCC, WCC, Dave Perowitz, etc. are incredible machines that take some fine craftsmanship, great imagination and unbelievable tooling to build. Most, however, are not Harleys. They are generally built with aftermarket parts, custom frames, and aftermarket engines like S&S, Revtech, Merck, etc. Most of the ones you see on the Discovery channel for example don't have a single Harley part on them. So they are not Harleys. They are customs. They are even registered and titled as "special construction" or some other similar term depending on the state.

Whether or not you want to call them "choppers" is up to you. I think once you rake and stretch anything from stock it is a chopper. It may or may not be a Harley though.

I know a few people that have built custom bikes from Harleys and retained the Harley frame, engine and transmission, although modified, and replaced nearly everything else. These are still Harleys even though they have been customized. They are still registered and titled as a Harley and retain the original VINs.

A good example is a kit car. A Factory Five Cobra kit is not a real Shelby Cobra. However, when built right by qualified craftsmen, some of these kits make very fine cars. In comparison, an old Ford Roadster with a 350 Chevy engine, chopped roof and Chrysler/Dana rear end is still a Ford that's been customized because it retains its original body, VIN, etc.

So it's really a matter of semantics. You can prove a Harley is a Harley through its documentation. One of a kind customs are often designed and built in the style of a Harley but really aren't Harleys.

So technically your friends at work are porbably right if you are talking specifically about the bikes on American Chopper. But I think they might be off the mark a little if they are saying that once you modify any Harley, it's no longer a Harley.

They are all beautiful machines when travelling down an open stretch of road on a hot summer day with the throttle wide open. So what difference does it really make in the grand scheme of things?

Ride hard, ride safe, Harley or not.

Well said Maxpower,After reading what you posted I tend to agree with that.They do have amazing imagination to come up with the ideas to build like that.If it doesnt have original frame ,engine and tranny it cant be called a H/d as there is nothing left to suggest it is in fact a H/d.I am going to call this argument a draw.I will definatley agree on a summers day there is nothing like riding a bike on the open road.Just the freedom you get is unreal.

holy cow

choppers..bikes back in the day bikers used to strip down(chop) to the bare bones you can put a raked front end/DROP THE FRAME on a norton and triumph or freakin honda they are all "choppABLE"REGARDLESS ofTHE title info.
these dAYs THE tv CREW builders build custom bikes..mostly are bare boned rides kinda like the early chopper days (only they got money), it is that simple.... people ran/run choppers shop take HD/norton/ honda to their shops and they customize it for you... raked or not it has been chopped, front fenderS... bikers used to/still chop(actually "bob") them down and make' em smaller.Some of the baddest chop jobs were mixing triumphs and nortonsIMHO. they still look pretty cool to me. SO forget the TV jokers and contemplating the history and enjoy the bike titled whatever way it is.
Some of it was copied from the early british fads of bikers where they would strip'em down and race em in the streets from one end of a strip and back to the pub. iF YA GOTTA Grab a book read the history if you have nOt been part of it and forget the water cooler jockey wanna bes!!! All that said no NO HARM INTENDED.

ride on

Choppers, custom what ever.It's where the heart came from. Call it what you want.I call it a V TIWN and some people called HARLEY and DAVIDSON created this beautiful thing and I LOVE IT.There's harleydavidson in every thundering sound VTWIN motor.You could'nt ride one of those choppers or customs if it wasn't for those two guy's named HARLEY DAVIDSON!

My fav is the Merrill Lynch, or which ever financial company it is, commercial where the guy's talking to his advisor in an outside cafe and this chopper rides up with a retired guy on it. Sound is of a straight piped Hog (S&S, whatever), but it's a CB750 single cammer motor! BWAAAA, ha, ha! Idiots for producers. Kinda like the bad biker movie I saw once where the bike gang doing the hassling was jumping dunes on the beach or out in the desert or somewhere, bad Harley noises, and they're on two stroke Yamaha DT1s. ROFLMAO!

Brings back some old memories ------

Just thought I would throw in a couple of cents on this topic. Starting out on a, as I remember 67 BSA Hornet, Man, what a ride. Capasiter ignition, and talk about come out of the hole! That was in 70. I today don't think it was what you would call a starter bike, but the guy that we bought it from kept smiling the whole time my youger brother and I tried to figure out if this was for us. He had raced it, and as usual, going through a divorce. Was it a chopper, I don't think so. Either was that 69 BSA firebird scrambler, 4" over front end ( slugs of course ) that we had to buy in 72. Near that time I got up close to my first HD Super Glide. Wow, I just had to have one. No more British bikes for me. On to 86, wife, child, house, ---- in walks a guy in the small auto/truck shop. Another mechanic says to me, hey Eddie needs some cash----75 HD FXE, it was a match made in heaven. 750.00 later, that 75 FXE with 54 FL front/wdrum chrome tripple trees, 4" over, fat bobs, FL rear fender, laced wheels. Man, riding that HOG with those pull backs, it was exstacy all the way to Sturgis 88. Of course with the paint, cam, pistons, top-end, clutch, chain why not. Divorce 93 no more bikes. 05, E-Bay, 77 FLH loaded 16,000 mi Shrinner Bike, got it two weeks ago. Off the truck, rode that sweet thing 20 minuites, in the garage. Open things up real quick, check, adjust, replace what is needed. Will be heading out the middle part of October from Chicago to The Roar By The Shore, South Padre Island, Texas. It will be GREAT my brother in law has a Ness Y2K and his 3rd Road King, living near Harlingen. My Brother will fly in from, some where, (busy guy) and I am going to trailer my new Baby to Harlingen. We'll be in the wind once again. Sure, were doin'it like the old guys, but who gives a SxxT!
Ride on Brothers, bluejay864

Thanks for all the responses guys.I suppose it comes down to the person that is looking at the bike,it might be a chopper to them and a harley to the next person.Either way I like them both,a chopper is a personal statement from you the rider to the world who will look at you when riding past.The same goes for the harley you but out of the shop.God knows I have to look when I hear a harley coming towards me.Nothing like the roar of a v-twin on song.

Well.....

I used to own an '86 VS700 Suzuki Intruder that I chopped up and put back together. Frankenstiened lots of different parts on it. Had a blast doing it, too! I don't care if you call it a chopper or custom or metric or rice burner, it is the fact that you ride that matters to me, not what you ride. I really like the look of the "old school" bobbers with the fat front tires. You can really fly around corners/curves on one of those!

But, back to your original chopper vs. harley thread. Go with what the title/paperwork says. If it has a "factory" (HD/Honda/Suzuki/whatever) title, then call it a "enter factory name here" chopper. Gotta go!

Hell, who cares, if ya think ya have a chopper, then its cool,its your scoot, you built it so call it what ya want.
Like killerb, if I had the shop that occ has, well then I could let my imagination go wild but work inna little shop at home but love it, more hands on crafty stuff, like it that way.
H/D motors, S&S motors, Revtech, Ultima, where do ya draw the line on whats Harley and whats not.

Excuse my ignorance with this question,but what is the main difference between revtech,s&s motors compared to a factory motor.Are they unreliable as to the motor itself being built with go fast components.I have heard about revtech and s&s mtors but never thought to ask about them specifically.i have heard if you go big crank and cam that it will lessen the life of an engine because oil doesnt get around the motor properly.Please correct me if I am wrong.And any info would be handy.

voodo1 is right
The Brits did start it all and my headrag is off to them, has far as chops go, its just like anything else these days, better tooling and technologies that we have has let many bro,s and ladies experiment and allowed them to push the envelope further. I can relate to that because its our nature to improve and make older things better. As far as motors go, many like S&S have improved clearances and oiling improvement with better head and rocker box development along with much stronger cases and better bearings and bearing supports in the cases.
As long as the VTwin engine is accepted the developments will keep on going and its all for the best, LONG LIVE THE VTWIN ENGINE, stock Harely or others

So with the s&s motor and revtech its fair to say if you going to ride hard it would be better to buy one of these motors as they can handle a bit more of a flogging than and standard v-twin.

Flogged

Yes and no. There are a few good builders of after market Harley type of motors. S&S and Revtech are both good motors, I like the S&S over the Revtech, but that’s just me.

The Revtech gives a better warranty, which is more useful.(I think)

As far as flogging,, anyone can destroy an motor in no time at all. Well, almost anyone, some folks will never venture beyond 3-4k RPM’s, and red-line is totally out of the question.

Personally, ‘my’ grin factor doesn’t start until about four-grand, just listening to my motor in the upper RPM range gives me a chubby.