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Compression relief valves

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by bear, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. bear

    bear New Member

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    Looking for help! 2000 twin cam 88 bored to a 95. Put in 2.7v starter, 80 tooth starter ring gear. New HD battery! Still starts hard, especially cold weather with temps in the 40's.
    So here are the questions. Big Boar Battery with 350 cold crank amps? Compression relief valves, or both? At what compression ratio do you neee the relief valves?
    I cant believe that a 95 kit would create that much cylinder pressure. I would assume the compression ration isnt even 9.5 to 1.

    Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
    Bob:witsend:
  2. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    Is your ignition good & timing right?

    My 100" engine with 13:1 compression fires right off with a stock starter. It does have Zippers compression relief valves in the heads, but have rarely used them & they're only good for 2 revolutions of the flywheels anyway - the one for each cylinder pops back up after the 1st compression stroke.

    Product List
  3. bear

    bear New Member

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    last summer I had it dyno'd so I believe so. running stock carb smooth bored with larger jets. bike starts when we have been out riding all day. let it sit a day, then try starting it when it is cool, no go. i always have to have the battery tender on it. checked the battey and stater tonight and both are good. i did order a big boar 350 cold cranking amp battery today and checked all connections. looking good.
  4. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    My bro-in-law did a 95 in kit with SE 203 cams(i think) on the cams & no trouble at all starting cold except for the carb, the guy he rebuild it is out of state now , but we think he has it jetted wrong , don't know what jets he put in were guessing for now
  5. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    what did the compression test reveal??? does it just spin slow or spins ok but wont start?
  6. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    The 95 kit in my Springer starts right up, no compression release and turns over just fine.
  7. bear

    bear New Member

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    havent had a compression test, probably should! When I hit the starter button for the first time, it engages trys to turn then stops. Release the button then push again and it will turn over. If it dosent start in the first few rotations then the battery is not strong enough to try again. It does spin slow at first the spins normal after the starter gets going.
  8. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    You may have a current drain (short) somewhere & finding that will require more than just checking connections. Also, a fairly common problem is battery cables corroding inside the insulation where you don't see it, cutting down on the current available to the starter.
  9. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    speaking of connections.....they need to be bright and shiny. if they look clean but are black, that is corrosion and a loss of power....corrosion isnt always green..
  10. bear

    bear New Member

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    Havent thought about the battery cable corrosion in the middle of the cable. It would be worth changing. Every year I clean and inspect all the connections i can. I did do a leak or drain test, all was fine. These are great ideas, thanks. I will invest in new cables today and put them on tonight! I'll let you know the results.
  11. bear

    bear New Member

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    Just ordered a compressiont tester. can anyone tell me where to find the spec on what the compression results should be? This guage only tells preasure not compression ratio.

    Also the cams I put in are Andrews 510.
    Dyno results were 93 HP & 99 foot punds torque.
  12. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    I should also have mentioned spark plug wires - they can break inside the insulation & you won't see it. Grab one bare-handed while the engine's running & you'll darn sure feel it though !
  13. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Pressure is what we are looking for when you do the test do so cold
    take off air filter,
    remove both plugs
    put tester in one of the cylinders, open throttle 100% and crank until the needle stops

    do both cyl. See what pressure you are getting..

    Could be a couple of things.

    Starter could be bad, doesn't matter how old
    Wires could be improperly installed (loose, broken, corroded) on the ground going to the frame below the tank be sure you have a star washer under the ground cable to dig past the powdercoat.

    Make sure you have a good connection (tight) at the battery

    Post your CCP so we know where you sit..

    If it's say 170 then that's about normal for a mild engine and the starter
    should crank right over.

    I ran a stock starter w/o releases on my 95 that was hitting well over 200 CCP...
  14. 59panhead

    59panhead New Member

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    so do you know what your Static compression is ? to much or to little can cause a motor to start hard or run bad Its not compression ratio its stactic compression

    go to page 22 in the Andrews Product catalog and its on line Yes its the Andrews products that make the cams and tranny gears or call a tech there 847-759-0190 central time

    changing parts, without knowing if there the right combanation Common mistake ! but it happens all the time
  15. bear

    bear New Member

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    i will check all the connections tonight. had to order the battery cables. my buddy has a compression tester to loan me so i will test that tonight. i will also look up the static compression. thanks a million for all the help!!!!
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The compression tester is all you really need when we get the PSI it will tell us
    however, that is based on the starter being able to freewheel the engine

    If it can't turn it over with the plugs out your problem is

    1) Battery not holding a load
    2) Cables and connections
    3) Starter

    Buddy has a 113 El Bruto, had an "aftermarket" starter that was "stronger" and it couldn't turn it over fast enough to get a reading, When you test it should really
    crank over easy with the plugs out (both should be out at the same time.) His "special starter" would not.

    replaced it with an All Balls Starter (lifetime warranty) and it works and spins great..

    We chased batteries, cables connections and I kept telling him that starter was the problem. Finally he gave in and replaced it. Not one bad start since.
  17. bear

    bear New Member

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    cool, i will check out the all balls starter. not apposed to replacing the starter again if it solves the problem.
  18. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    First things first
    check all the simple bits
    then move to the starter..
  19. 59panhead

    59panhead New Member

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    hey who did the work you know machine work and assembly? ....instead of changing and doing this and that to all the parts talk to somebody that knows what hes doing....meaning dont talk to a Harly Dealer there all parts changers! they know less then small rock ! Call Andrews Products in IL or Randy in Iowa @ king of cubes.com

    when you do the compression test follow the guide lines on page 22 in the Andrews cam catalog they walk you through it on what to do and theres a chart of what the pressure reading are telling you! if its around 145 to 165 its good for a modified street motor and it will be hard to start! over 185 and you need compression relese set up and it will really be hard to start plus 110 octane + but it should never be that high unless its a monster race only motor over 10.5 or higher C R
    165 to 185 thats a reading for big motors like 120 +cu in and it will be hard to start....detonation and over heating can occure

    read that info page before you do to many things buddy!
    If you understand what a motor does , or is doing, and what it can do, then you have learned something! Ask , read ,learn! then do !
  20. bear

    bear New Member

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    Thanks 59panhead,
    I bought all the parts myself, had the heads machined, ported and polished and assembled it myself during the winter of 98 with the help of a good friend who is a gear head. You gave me some kickass ideas that I'm going to do tonight.
    Thanks!
    Bob

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