Engine not "streetable"?

Because I got a new bike this year I became an automatic member of the HOG association. As such, I got a HOG magazine last night.

I found that Harley is now offering a "race only" 120-inch motor. It claims performance dyno figures in the 130/130 range, which is quite a leap over our stock engines now. The end of the article adds that you cannot buy the motor for street use. Thuis doesn't make any sense to me.

Lots of guys run S&S motors that exceed those numbers. The new Yamaha V-Max makes over 200 BHP. Even those of us who use Screaming Beagle parts right out of MoCo's custom catalog can get numbers over 100, and we ain't dead yet.

This article implies that they are trying to save us from ourselves. Does this sound like the straight scoop to you?

I bet it has more to do with emmissions standards than saving us from ourselves. Like most of the Screaming Eagle stuff, if they threw it into their street line-up they'd have to have it tested and compliant with a ton more regs. This way they can sell it and let the customer deal with that stuff.

I re-read the article. It turns out that the engine is balanced to take the shock out of the drive-line. That means you can use a standard transmission. It appears that it bolts into regular motor mounts.

They also tell you what throttle body to use.

It's a crate motor. Who's to stop me from sticking it into a street bike, bolting on Screaming Beagle pipes and dyno tuning it? Even if I lose a few horses it's still better than stock.

Is it worth the 5,500 dollars, however?

Hey there Red haven't seen you on in a long time. Right on to your take on this. When I bought my SE parts, all of them said that they were for race use only, even the .497 cams that I installed which is a really nice cam. Awesome point!

I can appreciate your statement about how addicting the HP and Torque can be. Although I haven't dynoed my bike yet, I am guessing I am making about 85 Hp to the wheel with about 90 ft lb of torque at its peek. I still want more. I have been thinking about taking the heads off and shipping them back to Bishop and having those heads cut to squeeze out at least 100 hp. I may have to do more for that kind of gain, but that is the goal.

HD's answer to recession and it gets them off the hook with the Feds.

The 120” and 131” Racing engines from Harley are actually JIMS Engines. I don’t do the HOG thing so I haven’t seen the magazine. Looked into them a few months ago and at that time specs were 125hp/121tQ for the 120” and 130’s for the 131”. I was looking into buying a 2007 Street Glide from an individual with the 120” in it, as well as a butt load of other dealer installed accessories. All the extras were added before it left the dealer. Talked to dealer to find out about the bike and was told the invoice was over $65,000 out the door. Fortunately he also told me that the bike was tied to the guy’s business that was being sued and going bankrupt. So I backed off. It would have been a hell of a deal, 3800 miles, $25,000 and said might would take $20,000 cash money. Anyway according to the hear say research (2 dealers & Forms),about the Jims Engines, I found out they are good for bar hopping, but it was hit and miss on them holding more than 10 or 20 thousand miles with many longer trips like cross country touring.

I have learned that the best way to sell something is to tell the buying public they can't have one. Then the item becomes "desired."

I don't see any figures anywhere that make this 120R engine dangerous, outside of EPA stats, hard on stock clutches or unable to be serviced at local dealerships.

It appears to just be a nice, bigger Harley engine with a Screaming Beagle pedigree. If you choose carefully, I think you could come close to the HP/TQ figures simply using an existing 110 and parts from MoCo's own catalog.

If you stop and think about it, MoCo has been flirting with JIMS engines and that Wedge X project. Even at that time a lot of us wondered in Harley's overall 1936 design scheme was reaching the end of the road in terms of power and EPA numbers. You could have even made a case that the V-Rod engine was a attempt to step into a future design.

Personally, I think they picked the wrong bike. Oh, I have a tricked out big-twin--but also a new rubber Sportster. However, in terms of power, weight, unit construction and "traditional design," I wonder if they should have left the big twins to Electra-Glides and improved the Sportsters.

I think that you make a point when you said that you think that they should leave the BT for the E-Glide and should start to do more with the Sportster. Can you imagine what a Sporty would do with 120 ci engine?? That would be insane!!!

We make the crankcase for the V rod engine for H-D . I think if H-D would put that engine in a different looking bike something more traditional in styling I think they would have a hot item.

Both of your comments mirror the stuff I'm hearing locally. In fact, this stuff is one of the reasons I bought a new Sportster.

Like it or hate it, liquid cooling is coming, however in the present form it "came ugly." Even the Muscle is tame, it has only two more BHP than the stock VRSC line and it will never smack down a V-Max in terms of raw power or cornering ability. The real benefit here is better EPA numbers. To add, a liquid cooled engine would be great for long distance touring.

As for picking the Sportster instead, I think MoCo once again failed to support an idea. Why aren't there Buell parts in the entire Sportster line? In fact, why isn't there a Buell?

Every Sportster has tinker-toy shocks. There are precious few engine enhancements. There is no CVO Screaming Beagle Sportster. In fact, you could make a great argument that Sportsters are all chrome and paint. All of them are the same except for cosmetics.

In decision making that offered a better Sportster or an older design MoCo won't sell, they chose the "don't sell" option. I still cannot figure out the benefit.

My guess why they do not do anything with the Sportster is because most people do not hang on to them like they do with a Softtail and the other bikes, which I cannot understand in the first. Yes I would agree that the suspension on the Sportster needs attention, but HD won't do that because of how many of them get traded in. Look at the dealers, they are over run with Sportsters. People need to get out of their head that the Sporty is not a "girls bike" or a starter bike.

I agree. But I also believe you're onto a "self-fulfilling prophesy."

If MoCo indeed thinks the Sportster should be marketed as a "disposable women's bike," then why would any new buyer seriously want one? And if people then buy them to dispose of them, then why should MoCo fix them? And round and round we go.

Short memories, I think. Sonny Barger rode a Sportster. So did our prez. I've now owned four of them. And if you buy non-factory parts you can out-pace just about any other bike. After all, the Bonneville Flats land speed record was broken at that time by a Lake City 'Gargantuan' Sportster motor.

Bringing that back to the theme of this thread, they are indeed selling Sportsters, but they don't seem to plan on selling many 120R motors. If you're going to sink R/D dollars into a newer product, shouldn't a corporation plan to make some money from the venture?

I think people would stand in line to buy a Screaming Beagle +1500cc Sportster with a decent suspension and Brembo brakes. I'd be the first in line!

I think the bike would have to have the classic look to it to get big numbers in sales. If you get a chance take the XR 1200x out for a ride. I took one out for a ride a Sturgis. While it isn't a sport bike per se ,it is a very good handling Harley..the best I've ever ridden. My FXR had Works performance suspension front and back and a fairly strong 80 incher in it and it was my favourite bike..this sportster stock would eat it alive..right out of the box and there's some easy hp in that 1200 to be had. They're not selling that well right now but then, neither did the FXR at first. Probably Harley's best kept secret. Wished I'd had the cash for one and the suspension and brakes are great, one finger on the front brake is all you need to haul it down in a hurry, when was the last time you heard that about a Harley.