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Engine Rebuild

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by smiley7661, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    I have a 1999 Electraglide Classic with almost 93K on it, and it seems to be leaking a little oil, I cant quite figure the exact spot that it is coming from, but seems to be around the place that the jugs and main case come together. My question is, if I am going to be trying to fix the leaks, would it be cost effective to do a engine rebuild at the same time. Also, would a low mileage take off cylinder/piston be acceptable?
  2. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The stock 88 cyl on your bike can be bored out to fit 95 inch pistons,

    If it were me I'd pull them, have them bored and buy a set of flat top SE HD pistons, this will give you a bigger motor, more power, not a ton but more TQ and fix the problem at the same time.

    TC motors have O ring base gaskets not the paper style of the older evo/pan/shovel motors.

    If you have the SM it's pretty straight forward to uninstall and reinstall, just get the gaskets and a torque wrench and follow it exactly as prescribed.

    I would not buy used pistons and you already have cyl that can be redone for less money than used that would need to be honed anyway.
  3. ironhorse

    ironhorse Active Member

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    I would just buy the 95 kit as the jugs have been factory fabed for the heat and done properly as with having them bored the jugs are more accurate but more chance for error JMO
  4. ironhorse

    ironhorse Active Member

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    ifn ya want to have em bored i would buy an ebay 88 set and have them bored so ya dont lose any ridin time
  5. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    If I had a quality machine shop with torque plates available (thankfully I do) I'd do just the opposite. I've seen more than one 95" kit (& others) have to be done again in 6 months because the engine was re-assembled under the assumption that the new pistons & cylinders had already been matched when they hadn't been. I never trust off-the-shelf parts - mass-production tolerances are sloppy compared to a good machinist checking each part individually & honing the cylinders precisely on torque plates.

    With 93,000 miles on the engine it only makes sense to rebuild it now as you're going to have to do it before long anyway & getting the PTW clearance *exactly* right is crucial if you want to go another 93,000 miles without messing with the engine. For a shop which has the tools & does that type of work all the time, it's not difficult or time-consuming to get it right & there are good machine shops all over the country.
  6. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey Art whereyabeen racing?

    I agree with Art, the cyl you have now are well seasoned and heat cycled more than any new one, and when you have them bored with Tq Plates on them as Art said, they can be setup exactly to the new pistons.

    You put a few miles on it so I'd build it mild,

    Bored cyl
    HD flat tops
    Andrews tw26 or woods tw6 (prefer the woods myself a bit more power in low to mid range where you ride) JMO Andrews and S&S cams are good but a bit lazy compared to Woods Cams
    I would consider having the heads freshened up with new valves, guides and springs and have them cleaned up (street port) for mid range, it will give you another 100K.
    New lifters HD B models, (updated version is B)
    new tensioners, bearings gaskets etc.

    If you can turn a wrench and use a tq wrench you can do the work yourself or get a friend that knows this stuff to help and you can install it over a weekend easy.

    For the boring and head work, I'd suggest Bill (Hammer) Bishop at Bishop's Performance - Parts & Service for Harley Davidson, Buell, and other American V-Twins, His wife Amy will answer the phone, she knows her stuff.

    Your motor should run very well and have plenty of streetable tq, it won't be a monster that will break stuff and you can run with most, pull two up easy, pass easier. Tuned correctly mileage won't suffer.
  7. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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  8. voodoochild

    voodoochild New Member

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    Ok then, who do you recommend for boring cylinders? Or does it pay to find someone locally and pray that they do what they say they will?
  9. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    If there's not a good machine shop locally that has experience with M/C barrels and heads, I'd take HRK's recomendation where to send them. You wouldn't want to have to "pray" they got it right.
    Pretty sure Art could steer you to a shop that you could be confident the job is done well too.
    You want quality work. No praying allowed!!;) :devil:

    Except of course for our troops!!
  10. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    You may very well have a good local shop, but I wouldn't just hope & pray they knew what they were doing, I'd find out by asking around & going there. Torque plates are a must & if you've not seen them, they're simple thick steel plates with a hole in the middle - one bolts on either end of the cylinder, making the cyl. "the meat in the sandwich" then long bolts that join the 2 plates are torqued to the same specs as the cyls. should be when installed on the engine. Now you can bore & hone, knowing the cyls. will be the right shape when installed - when you take the plates off, they'll go out-of-round, but that's OK 'cause they'll go back when you torque the heads down on re-assembly.

    The shop must also have a bore gauge, designed specifically for measuring the diameter of a cylinder top to bottom & all the way around. Expensive tool that only shops that do cylinders often will have. And they must know that pistons are not perfectly round & measure with a micrometer below the bottom ring groove in line with the wrist-pin hole & again 90 degrees away. Pistons "grow" as they heat up, so they will be round when the engine's warmed up, but for boring/honing purposes you go from the largest measurement on the piston. And different piston manufacturers will recommend different piston-to-wall clearances, so you go by what they say.

    If you don't have a local shop, there are several you can send your parts to. I haven't dealt with Bishop's that HRK recommended, but I'd trust his recommendation; here in North Carolina I use ECS Engineering (which has several sets of torque plates for different size cylinders & 40 years experience):
    ECS ENGINEERING
    & out in Colorado I can recommend NRHS (been there, know the owner):
    NRHS - High Performance for your Harley Twin Cam, Evolution, Sportster or Buell!

    There are other shops I've dealt with like Zippers Performance in Maryland, but the big shops like that charge more & take longer.
  11. voodoochild

    voodoochild New Member

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    Very informative post Art, thank you very much. At least armed with a little knowledge I won't have to pray! (except for our troops like Lucifer said) I was toying with the idea of doing the 95" kit, not for any other reason than power.
  12. ironhorse

    ironhorse Active Member

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    I must have missunderstood the post I was under the impression that he was looking to keep riding and was looking at just the top end, (quick turn around) but I agree with both you and hrk a well seasoned jug is best, sure as heck would get all the machining done for a complete rebuild, bigger faster stronger that way, but most folks don't have the machine shop in their back yard nor do they have reputable shops close by for such work, so shipping and hoping comes into play, the fact that there is play in a factory is not going to keep it from going another 93,000 miles, preventitve maintanance, or the lack of is, the and the 6 month problem isnt the ptw matching problem i would look for, it would be the assymble as i have seen and heard of both 80, 95, 110, 88, 103, both factory off the shelf and custom machined, and most failed from bad assymbly, and bad machining, but have seen a broken piston and a set of bad rings before also, not starting an argument just giving the other side
  13. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You can get good and bad parts and good and bad machine work,

    Best bet JMO is to send the pistons and cyl from the existing motor to the shop that will bore them, hone and using Tq plates of course, then fit the pistons and rings to the cyl, nothing can be better.

    Bill will setup the cyl and fit the pistons, as well as leave the pistons in the cyl if you want and ship them back to you, all you do is tap the pistons down and connect to the rods, snap in the retain rings and tap down the cyl. Piece of cake and he's not overpriced and he cares about his work.

    Sure a local shop can do the same, however down here I've found more half as$$ work that I've redone in my garage than I can shake a stick at, I send it to Bill because I can sleep at night when I get it back together. LOL

    Sure Arts people are good too, heres the thing when you get the name of someone that is good go with them

    The other guy I trust and about the only one in FL is John Sachs in Miami/Lauderdale.

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