Ethanol gas

Just got back from Laconia - bad weather, great people. The state is looking to mandate ethanol-based fuels (using corn, etc.) in the next few years, like they do in South Dakota and other states. I remember some years ago seeing warnings that fuels with ethanol-type additives can eat the rubber seals out of some carburetors. When we went to Sturgis in 1998, I was ****ed careful not to use anything but name brand 93 octane in the bike, however that may not be an option in the future. Has anyone had any experience with these types of fuel in a carbureted bike motor?

Gassy

Yes sir, some of them Yankee’s can be awfully nice people. You got me thinking there Davefxst, about this ethanol thing when you wrote “other states” I wonder how you go about finding out what them tree-hugging Nazi’s are doing to the gas in my state???. I’m sure the parts industry will come up with an alternative mixture to counter-check the ethanol mix.


(note 1: I’m an environmentally conscience person and I feel I do my part to keep this world healthy.)
(note 2: I’m also aware that we should consider an alternative fuel. I was not flaming tree-huggers)

CH3CH3OH

I'm taking organic chemistry right now and ethanol is easy. Two carbon chain with an OH group. Thing is, ethanol is the main alcohol for beverage drinks too. So..if it's good for me, shouldn't it be good for the bike too?

Congress is looking into passing a law which will allow farmers in places like Iowa to grow corn out the ying yang to make ethanol as a fuel additive. It's not so much a tree-hugging thing as not relying on places like Saudi Arabia for oil and fuel. Home grown so to speak. Not sure if it'd bother my FJR or not, which runs just fine on 87 octane or 85 octane at altitude.

The Down Side???

Bob Sikorsky writes a syndicated article in newspapers dealing with cars. This past week he dealt with ethanol. The EPA says that ethanol will reduce gas mileage 2-3%, according to Sikorsky. However his idea is: when can you trust what the EPA says about mileage? His claim, from research as well as driving experiences, is that in actuality gas mileage is reduced anywhere from 10 - 25% using ethanol.

Kansas legislators just passed a bill which no longer makes it mandatory to post on the pumps that the gasoline contains ethanol. The reasoning was that no customers were buying the stuff, and yeah, we grow corn here in Kansas.

At what percentage of Ethanol? We are in the EPA mandated winter up to 20% Ethanol to reduce air born blah blah. But, I do not remember loosing any mileage.

Ethanol has fewer BTU's something like 77k to 125k for gas so I could see where as you increase the percentage the usable energy will drop off very quickly. As you dilute the gas and reach say 50% you are down to about 100k BTU's so mileage would have to drop and cost per mile goes up.

it does breakdown

eat up/dry out/crack (whatever ) rubber quicker though...not sure how long it' ll taket to get to the center of a rubber seal or tootsie roll tootise pop either though.
we have it all out here meth.eth and 100% real.....the 100% sunocos, shells and belive it or Meijer gas run great..I stay away from the corn fuel out here, it is even mentioned not to use it in HD owners guide. then there is that Dang BP gas I don't wanna talk about.

Maybe I'll swtch to a good burning propane run the bike and the grill.

EPA'ed

I wonder how many of them EPA-clowns ride motorcycles ? Maybe there should be motorcycle gas only (yes I know, don't hold my breath). The EPA is government level, right?. And the state level ? I just don't like my fuel being messed with. There is no uniformity, no real standard. I could ride across 4 or 5 states and get 4 or 5 different gasoline ingredient's. Most the new cars out there will run on about anything, if you were out in the middle of no-where and needed some gas you could piss in your tank and it would probably run.(well maybe) but you know what I mean. What I am trying to say is, you SHOULD have the right to know what your putting into your tank.

Now, ain't that the truth!

Okay, VooDoo, then I'm remembering correctly - HD does say at some point to avoid the stuff, at least above a certain percentage. 10% sticks in my mind. If CD's state mandates 20% in the winter, does that make it unsuitable for HD use? And if Kansas ain't gonna say at the pump what it is, then how do you know? It's not just HD - there are a lot of bikes out there that have older pieces in the fuel system. Just my 2 cents worth, but any time the EPA tells me something is for my own good, I start backing up. If you factor in what it costs to grow and process the corn into ethanol, plus the energy consumed to make it happen, it is probably a net loser energy-wise. Here in Pennsylvania, cows don't vote. Apparently in Kansas, corn does.

aren't these fuels tested for nox compounds on combustion? There's already the disclaimer saying that snorting the stuff may be hazardous to your health. I agree that you should know what is going in the tank. I'd like to know what's going into mine.
Fossil fuels are non renewable and are finite. I'm all for something that will work and using a source that is renewable isn't all bad. Up this way using blended gas eliminates the need to put in gas line anti-freeze in the winter as the alcohol absorbs the water. Corn is relatively easy to grow, they grow lots for feed..why not fuel as well?

I guess we could go to electric bikes with little sound machines that blare "Vrrrrrrrroooooommmmm!"

Pumped

One last comment, most farmer’s are subsidized anyway, and I’m all for keeping them and others employed, but not at the expense of my motor. There has got to be a standard, and posted/published at the pump/gas station. I know if I have thought of it, than others have thought of it as well.

yup

even my old clunker car says not good.
So what we gonna do? Maybe we ought to trade barrel for barrel corn for oil... the farmers can still provide and we can all ride with real gas(except me using BP) and live happily ever after? I do not know....
Makes me wanna go punch out a non meat eating tree hugging pushy saving the world by pushing their views- non-real gas burning and proud of it sticker on the bumper jerks while
wearing a shirt that says live and let live. I am not sure what the real answer is..but that would help me..might as well blame the far left and the far right....all I want is real gas a medium rare porterhouse steak and a beer.
oh yeah and for commercials not to blare ten times louder than the TV show I am watching that p!@#SEs me off too. I thought it was federal law all pumps must be labeled though...My buddy out here actually is an auditor/inspector and checks all the pumps in my county.

Yep, Yep.

Well Voodoo, in a perfect world we would all have the wind to our back, a full tank premium fuel and come home to an perfectly cooked medium-rare porterhouse steak; but unfortunately, it’s not a perfect world. What it gets down to is politics, it’s not really a who’s blowing who, but, who has more power on legislative floors; locally and nationally. Unfortunately, them Tree-Hugging-Nazi’s have got a jump on us, and I think there might be more of them. So I’m going to grab my dog and click my Ruby-Red-Boats together and say “there’s no place like home” “there’s no place like home” “there’s no place like home”

I don't think this is a situation against the tree-huggers as much as not relying on Arab (foreign) oil.

and oh yeah..I'm in total agreement about the friggin commercials. That's why I like recording things and just fast-forward thru the commercials..or watch HBO.

okay

so make it an Oil Monger tree hugger..LOL they got trees other there?
either way I still usually feel like smacking a nazi-tree hugger.
Eat meat be an AMERICAN AND be proud of it. Cows are not my equal and the only Hog worth not killing is HD!! LOL~~~~~ Feel like building a log cabin while using a diesel chainsaw!! LOL
ok time to stop this is a motorcycle tech page....

Good evening. Sometimes, you have to have a laugh at the things that you know are going to ruin your day.

Who is guarding the guards ???

I use it!

Here in Minnesota 10% ethanol is mandatory in every gallon of gas sold...except for pumps labled as premium for antique car and off-road vehicle use. Many stations go so far as to add 10% ethanol to their premium 92 which bumps the octane up to 93...this is what I use.

I use it for two reasons....my mothers side of the family are corn farmers, and I choose to support Americans....and I want to keep every dime out of that God-forsaken middle east where they breed *%(*&% terrorist...and pay for their AK-47's with profits made from Oil products.

I can tell you that early on the rubbers used in carburators and fuel injection systems in the early 80's was prone to breakdown...but that was supposed to be fixed with changes to the materials used in fuel applications. I have run ethanol in virtually every tank of gas for car, bike, etc...for as long as I've been driving and had ZERO problems related to fuel. As sleepy said, it is a benefit for preventing fuel line freezups in the winter by removing water from your gas...which has got to be a good thing...who wants water in their gas?

As far as harleys go...I've only got a little over four years experience with one but I've got 35,000 miles worth of 10% ethanol gas through it and there appears to be no problems with my diaphram in the carb or anywhere else.

I think a lot of people here may be scared of something they are not well informed on...but I can say from experience of comparing both the ethanol blended and pure premium 92 here...that I could discern no difference in performance or fuel mileage between the two...so I stuck with the higher octane blend for reasons stated above.

I just know I like my ethanol on ice, or sometimes shaken..not stirred.