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Ignition and or charging system problem

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by mikeforcec41, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. mikeforcec41

    mikeforcec41 New Member

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    I HAVE A 1991 HARLEY DAVIDISON FLHTCU. I NOTICED YESTERDAY WHILE I WAS OUT ENJOYING THE WEATHER ON MY HARLEY, THAT THE CHARGING SYSTEM VOLT METER WAS READING BELOW 10 VOLTS. WHILE STILL RIDING I TURNED THE IGNITION SWITH 1 STEP TO THE LEFT AND MY VOLT METER WENT ABOVE 12 VOLTS AND WHEN I TURNED THE SWITCH BACK TO THE LIGHT POSITION IT AGAIN RED BELOW 10 VOLTS.
    CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG, IS IT MY IGNITION SWITCH ITS SELF OR IS MY REGULATOR OR ROTOR & STATOR.
    i HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO LOOK OR WHAT TO DO.
    YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT MY PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS AT armedcontract@yahoo.com
    ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATFULL. I GET CONFUSED WHEN IT COMES TO THE CHARGING SYSTEM AND THE IGNITION SWITCH IS IN THE NECK WHICH LOOKS LIKE IT IS A PAIN TO GET OUT AS THE FAIRING IS IN THE WAY
  2. Panthera

    Panthera New Member

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    How is the battery holding up? If your system is consistently at those voltages, the battery would soon drain. My first step would be to verify the meter, using a separate meter. If the meter is saying 10V and the battery isn't being drained, possibly a bad meter. Check your battery connections also, a loose or corroded connection can be tricky on smaller charging systems. After that, the regulator would be the next likely culprit.
  3. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you have the Service Manual? If not stop by a dealer and order one, it has the diagram of the wires for that bike, what goes where, it will help you test these things and know where to test.

    If you have a digital meter you can test charging rates at the battery, coming out of the stator, at the meter.

    As was said, could be a bad meter, could be a bad connection at the meter, could be a bad wire coming into or out of the switch.

    Best bet, get the manual ,and start testing connections, start at the battery, if it's an older battery (4 years+) maybe get the battery tested,

    Then check all your grounds, battery, frame, make sure the cables are tight and clean..

    Work your way back around the bike...
  4. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    it will also show you how to test the circuit.........mechanical voltmeters can lie...
  5. mikeforcec41

    mikeforcec41 New Member

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    Hay, I attached my snapon meter to the battery while the engine was runing, I noticed a few things. With the ingition switch was in the light position the volt meter red 11.95 and when I swiched the head lap switch to the low beam position the volt meter droped to about 11.09 - 11.50 and when I swiched it back to the high beam position the volt meter red again about 11.95. Now while the engine is still runing with the volt meter attached tot he battery and engine runing, the volt meter never went above 11.95 millavolts or 11.95 volts.
    I don't know what else to do, the battery is only 2 1/2 yrs old and its a sealed gell high torque battery, do you know of any recalls or service bullations concerning the charging system for this yr and model for the 91 FLHTCU.
    Again, you can respond to my yahoo email address
    @ mikeforcec51@yahoo.com
    Thanks, Brian
  6. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    with those readings, you are not charging.......get the book and check the regulator, and alternator.....tests are very simple to do, but sorta lengthy to type out here........
  7. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree sounds like the charging system is not working.

    there are some methods and steps to checking the voltage regulator
    and the stator separately.

    Step 1. First things first, load test the battery. Most places like Auto Zone will do it for free. Even if it measures over 12.5 vdc it can still be bad under a load. Battery is typically rated at 19 amp hours and 270 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA).

    Start the engine and measure DC Volts across the battery terminals, the regulator should be putting out 14.3 - 14.7 vdc at 3600 rpm and 75 degrees F.


    Step 2. To check the regulator unplug it from the stator. Take a test light and clip it to the negative terminal of the battery and then touch first one pin and then the other on the plug that goes to the regulator. If you get even the slightest amount of light from the test light the regulator is toast.

    To do this with a meter which is more accurate: black lead to battery ground, red lead to each pin on the plug, start with the voltage scale higher than 12vdc and move voltage scale down in steps for each pin. Any voltage is a bad regulator.
    You may get battery voltage on all three pins on the newer 3 phase regulators.
    The no voltage is for older type regulators with diode indicating the diode is bad and the regulator needs replacing.


    Step 3. On the other part of the disconnected regulator plug. Set the multimeter for Ohms x1 scale and measure for resistance across the pins of the stator. You should read something around 0.1 to 0.2 ohms for the TC88 32 amp system.
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Step 4. Then check for continuity between each pin on the plug and frame/engine ground. The meter needle should not move (infinite resistance)(digitals will show infinite resistance) if the meter needle does move (indicating continuity)(digitals will show some resistance), recheck very carefully. If the meter still shows continuity to ground the stator is shorted (bad).


    Step 5. Set the meter to read A/C volts higher than 30 volts (the scale setting for voltage should always be higher than the highest voltage you expect or you may fry the meter). Start the bike, and measure from one pin to the other on the plug (DO NOT cross the multimeter probes! - touch them to each other). You should read roughly 16-20 vac per 1,000 rpm.


    Step 6. If the battery was good under load test, if the stator is NOT shorted to ground, and the stator is putting out A/C voltage, then the regulator is bad (most likely even if if passed step 2).


    Generally the following is true:
    Check your owners/service manual for the system amp output for your bike.
    22 amp system produces about 19-26 vac per 1,000 rpm, stator resistance is about 0.2 to 0.4 ohms.
    32 amp system produces about 16-20 vac per 1,000 rpm, stator resistance is about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms.
    45 amp system produces about 19-26 vac per 1,000 rpm, stator resistance is about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms.

    Open the inspection plate if it smells burnt the stator is toast.

    On a bike with that age I would replace both the Stator/Rotor and the Voltage regulator to have a nice new system.
  9. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    and you can upgrade the system to a higher output!!!!
  10. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    wow hrk...........looks like you enjoy typing!!!!!!!:D:D:D
    good post!!!
  11. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    copy and paste is my friend LOL
  12. mikeforcec41

    mikeforcec41 New Member

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    READ BELOW AND GET BACK TO ME
  13. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Have you done the tests?

    most common is a grounded stator, pull the plug apart that comes out of the inner primary behind the shifter, two wires, that runs from the stator to the regulator. test for continuity as described, a grounded (bad stator) is common.

    Step 4. Then check for continuity between each pin on the plug and frame/engine ground. The meter needle should not move (infinite resistance)(digitals will show infinite resistance) if the meter needle does move (indicating continuity)(digitals will show some resistance), recheck very carefully. If the meter still shows continuity to ground the stator is shorted (bad).

    If Step 4 shows the stator is NOT grounded go to step 5, if Step 4 shows ground, remove credit cards from wallet, go to dealer, drop trow, bend over counter, buy new stator, rotor and new regulator, go back and install, get gaskets while you are there...


    Step 5. Set the meter to read A/C volts higher than 30 volts (the scale setting for voltage should always be higher than the highest voltage you expect or you may fry the meter). Start the bike, and measure from one pin to the other on the plug (DO NOT cross the multimeter probes! - touch them to each other). You should read roughly 16-20 vac per 1,000 rpm.


    First thing Id do is open the primary inspection plate and smell the inside, if it smells burnt the stator is toast, proceed to dealer buy lots of parts...
  14. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Sense the bike is older have you checked the battery cables? They could have corrosion and if the corrosion is excessive you won't get a good reading at the battery, just a thought.
  15. mikeforcec41

    mikeforcec41 New Member

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    I was going over what you said and i need to know a few more answers from you if you don't mind. Since i have a 3 phase stator, at idle should the readings i get from the stator be less than 16-20 vac @ 1000 rpm. And when the idle speed is increased should the readings be higher.
    I did what you said and i get very low readings at idle, about 6 - 10 vac and when idle is increased then the readings go up.
  16. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    sounds like it is working..........what do they go up to???????
  17. fxdxriderleo

    fxdxriderleo Active Member

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    If you have a three phase alternator, It's not the stock 91 alternator. They just started using the three phase unit just a few years ago.
    What three phase unit did you upgrade to?
  18. mikeforcec41

    mikeforcec41 New Member

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    Please read and reply[QUOTE You are correct, I only have a full wave stator/rotor/regulator. I did change all of the above and it seems to work but now I have a new problem. When I change from high beam to low beam the voltage drops a hole 2 volts from 13.95 to 12.2 volts at 2,000 rpm.Is this normal for a 91 FLHTCU. I am wondering if my switch for the head lamps is bad along with my ignition switch as sometimes the radio won't work unless I shut of the engine at the ignition switch and then tturn it back on, this is where I also notice a problem with my charging system according to the voltage meter. drop=fxdxriderleo;74710]If you have a three phase alternator, It's not the stock 91 alternator. They just started using the three phase unit just a few years ago.
    What three phase unit did you upgrade to?[/QUOTE]
  19. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    from your post, i would check out the ignition switch thoroughly......it sounds like ya have some loose/corrosion going on......

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