Not supporting the V-Rod?

I was a bit disappointed in MoCo's shabby treatment of the Buell before their divorce. While I might have never owned such a bike--now or in the future--I'd like to believe that there are products out there not just catered for bad boys. I also regretted MoCo not putting modern Buell technology into the Sportster line. I considered the handling of this issue a true waste.

Well, I was poking around in the Harley website recently and looked into the current VRSC line-up. And the idea of "line-up" is a true misnomer. There are only two models available for 2011. To add insult to injury, I cannot even remember seeing a V-Rod at my dealership lately, except for a few used models.

I was getting the feeling that MoCo was handling the VRSC line as they formerly did with the Buell.

"If we ignore the issue perhaps it will go away."

I'm a traditional Harley rider. I like Sportsters and Super Glides frankly because they most reflect the styles I knew as a younger man. I did look at the V-Rod when it first came out, and I even took one for a test ride.

Several years ago a biker who knew photo-shop did some mock-ups of possible Harley models with V-Rod engines. For example, he rendered an Electra Glide with a VRSC motor. I think he uncovered the problem.

Like it or not, a liquid cooled engine is the wave of the future. However, the current styling of the V-Rod just didn't excite the American market. If I was Willie G then I would use the company's resources to fix the styling perception concerns. I wouldn't just choke the design and shrug, "Well, we tried."

I see no problem or betrayal in asking openly on why there are no VRSC equipped Dynas and Electra Glides.

TT - You answered your question throughout your treastise: insufficient CUSTOMER interest in the model (including by you) has led to the neglect of the VRSC line. During a tough economy it makes no sense to invest effort in the fringe market. Most of the rider market for Harleys is interested in baggers or cruisers. H-D's biggest competitors own the cruiser/sport fringe market. Buell was a cute concept but they were limited too much by the Sporty engine base - I thought the Buell Ulysses was a cool concept, but it just weighed too darn much so I got a Suzi DR650 instead. It could have been made into a much lighter single thumper and would have done well, IMHO.

If/when H-D needs to sell all liquid cooled bikes, they have that engineered and ready to go. Until then, I don't blame 'em for supporting the models that actually leave the showroom.

You are correct. The problem I see overall--down through the future years--is that no true innovation will ever be proffered by MoCo until they first pull out the old 1936 blueprints.

It's happened in my industry. The idea of stainless steels was intially rejected by both the firearms and cutlery industry. Admittedly, there were problems. The stainless steel of that day was "gummy" and hard to mill.

A knife designer by the name of Bob Loveless melted down ball bearings of an alloy called 154-CM to make custom knives, and brought about what we know now in metallurgy.

Same thing with tubeless tires and wheels. The tire companies wouldn't make tires to fit rims that didn't exist, and wheel makers didn't want to take the chance that tires would not be available.

So just what is the tipping point for MoCo? We are in fact saying that they won't make something that will not sell now, or next year. Yes, the economy is bad, but R/D should not come to a complete standstill.

You point out a true condition. The present VRSC line does not meet my needs and wants and I did not buy one. But if you provided me with a liquid cooled Dyna I'd be the first one in line to purchase it.

I never thought I'd see liquid cooled dirt bikes or cafe racers. They are common now. I'd just like to see MoCo follow suit. And my opinion is that they are not doing too well in looking to the future of Sportsters, either.

I agree if H-D did a make over on the V Rod it would sell much better.

LOL. Sonny Barger rode one as prez. So did our prez. I've had four of them.

But in viewing the pictures you posted I find one bit of irony. That is, companies and individuals with far less capital can "re-build" a V-Rod into a useful bike, so why can't the huge corporation of MoCo?

I saw an article that said Barger is going to be on an up coming episode of Son's of Anarchy. He looks like he would probably have problems riding bit(h nowadays.

The main thing is: if the MoCo flinches, and goes away from their "nostalgic" design plan, then they have to compete with the Asian bike-makers straight-on. Right now, and for the forseeable future, they do not believe they can because of labor and material advantages (primarily labor) that the Asian companies have. Everyone here knows that if you wanted to buy a stock, lightning fast and reliable bike and didn't care who made it none of us would own Harleys. Harleys sell because they are Harleys, and if they stopped being Harley-like then they would be uncompetitive.

I have owned (and still own) Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda machines. I never wore any of them out, or even had any significant mech problems with them. I also never loved them the way I do my H-D FLHR, even though they all cost - added together - less than my Harley.

If Harley went full-throttle new-age, would people buy them? Right now, no one at H-D wants to bet on that, nor would I. It is what it is.

Want a V-Rod bagger? Make your own - a friend of mine did. You can, too!

:cheers:

Both points strike me as valid. First, while it pains me, I think the present V-Rod is an abject failure. And sooner or later MoCo is going to have to build a better Harley. And they have a tendency to put it off to the last minute.

In my lifetime Harley had points, condensors and coils that were interchangeable with a 1935 Ford. I believe even the 4-inch headlights for old Sportsters could be scavenged from old Fords and be purchased at our local Farm n' Fleet.

In 1969 Honda had a front hydraulic disc brake. My 1971 Super Glide had a single leading shoe front brake.

MoCo has to be dragged into the future kicking and screaming.

But I love the bikes.

As for the Sportsters, consider the view a man of my age might hold. This is my first modern EFI rubber Sportster of 1200cc using an electric starter. Compare that to the first three I owned--iron, foul kicking, 883 sized bikes.

My new Sportster is a frakking GoldWing compared to the older stuff!

As for "real men" and Sportsters, I wouldn't try chasing me on a Geezer Glide, especially for money. No doubt Betty would be the straight-line champ if there was enough straight road. But put a hook or a slice in the road course and Electra Glides will still be futilely grinding down floorboards long after I get home. We are then discussing two vastly differing bikes.

It's the mental, not the metal.

I'd never trade off Black Betty. But that's the point, the Sportster is a whole 'nuther style of bike. I don't like pushing an elephant around just going out to buy a loaf of bread.

I'm not even convinced a Glide in stock trim is that comfortable. I changed out my entire suspension to find the right balance for comfort and handling. My stock Dyna suspension was ill handling and the front end dived under firm braking. Just touching the brakes going downhill for a stoplight made the front end pogo.

The best thing about the back end was that it finally wore out. It gave me an excuse to get some decent progressive shocks. (BTW, I changed out the stock swingarm, tire, wheel and bushings during that overhaul.)

Big Glides are just too mushy and imprecise for me. If I had to build up a bike dedicated for long haul touring, I'd start with a Fat Boy.

And to be fair here, I just had the Sportster done. Talk about a suspension and seat combination thrown together by a bean-counter to save a few pennies...

The size of the bike is only half of the story. Stock Harley rear shocks (and most front ends) are junk. They are the typical 'over sprung and under-dampened' items that have plagued the bikes for years.

You don't have to go very far at all on progressives to realize that there is another world of sure-footed handling available.

These are mine, and they are worth every penny.