1. After 20+ years it's time to pass the torch. If you are interested in acquiring this forum please contact support@cv-performance.com for details. Any spam will be reported and blocked.
  2. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

Opinions needed

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by BONES, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. BONES

    BONES New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MACUNGIE,PA
    Recently been looking into re-doing my 06 softail with a stock 88 motor except for pipes and the stage 1 kit. Has anyone ever purchased pre-packaged kits like from zippers,ss,delktron,edelbrook etc...is it worth the money?? Everything that i have seen runs $4,500 on up..alot of money and most of these kits you still need to upgrade the oil pump,clutch etc...any advice would be graetly appreciated
  2. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Bones
    Just a bit more info, Are you looking to hop the engine up to 95 Inch or Larger?

    What's the budget if you don't mind my asking, there are a lot of budget ways to hop it up, depends on the goal...

    All those kits are great and the good thing is everything in the kit is designed to work together, cams, heads, pistons, etc.

    But you can do it yourself for maybe a little less money..
  3. BONES

    BONES New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MACUNGIE,PA
    Unfortunatly doing it myself is not a option.looking for the most bang for your buck so to say...i know if i only go part way i will be looking for more power after a year or two so i would rather do it up right the first time. I want to maintain reliabilty as a daily rider but would like more mid-range power.some kits go with just pistons,others replace crank etc. I would like to go a little bigger than 96..maybe 103 or bigger. Hd has a 103 kit. Don"t mind spending $$ if its worth it..right now i am bored w/the power
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    The old saying "how fast you want to go?. well How much money do you have" still applies...

    The hop up gamut runs from bolt on bolt in and tune to a full build stroker.

    95 to 98 inch kits are simple bolt together kits, reliable, make good power and can be stretched to make wild power.

    Remember with massive power comes more expenses - Drivetrain, as well as shorter life.

    Oh don't forget brake upgrades, you get more go you need more whoa!

    A 95 kit can be done in a weekend by a shop, a good wrench or a bunch of guys in a garage that have some knowledge of tools and engines. These are tractor engines and not that difficult.

    Because you have an 88, anything over 98 is going to require splitting the cases and in some instances splitting, boring, upgrading the main bearing to a timken because your cases have a bearing that can't handle serious power.

    The HD 103 bolt on cyl/pistons won't get you to 103 because you don't have the stroker crank, the 96 has the stroker crank already.

    Hopefully this will get you thinking in the right direction, I have a lot of ideas on things to do, it's just how involved do you want to get and how much power are you looking for in this project.

    If you have a buddy that's whipping up on everyone, well, then lets find out what he's done and build a nice sleeper to whip him stop light to stop light.

    Or do you need more power to pull two up and cruising but don't care about tire shredding bottom end power...

    Not trying to slight your question but lets get a little more specific on what you're willing to get into, a $9K stroker build with high po drivetrain and PM brakes or a couple of grand on a nice hot 95 inch engine.

    Finally, how fast you wanna go? How much you want to spend....
  5. BONES

    BONES New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MACUNGIE,PA
    Yes i hear you...already looked into lyndal brakes and 4 or 6 piston calipers from j brake. Plan to upgrade. Engine wise no not looking to spend 9k....maybe 4 or 5 which i believe can get me the power i"m looking for. Not looking to do burnouts or beat the paints off of anyone..just more midrange power,when crusing at 45 55 or so i want the bike to get up and go when you twist it. So will heads,cams,pistons with a good quality setup get me there. I figured 4 or 5 grand should buy me that. Stay with screamin eagle or go aftermarket??
  6. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Cape Breton NS,Canada
    These guys put a pretty good package together...send them your heads and jugs and they'll send you back a stock looking sleeper.
    Welcome to Head Quarters
    HRK could give you other places I'm sure to get similar results. IMO getting your seasoned jugs bored and your stock heads worked is a better bang for the buck upgrade and you don't have a bunch of perfectly good stock parts lying around.
    Search around and ask questions and you'll get a good package in the 4-5K range. Betcha someone might have a combo that includes a Woods TW6:)
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  7. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    I think you could do it for less than 4K based on what you are saying you just need a good strong midrange engine to help with passing, riding two up, all the basic stuff not a brow beater. Good now we're getting somewhere.

    There are a ton of good kits out there, HQ as mentioned above, SNS, Axtell even HD's hop up isn't bad for what you want.

    You said you don't or can't wrench on it, so have you talked with any local shops about what they will do and how much it's going to cost for them to get you the kit and the labor.

    Compare that to having your stock heads and cylinders machined to 95 inch, street port and clean up and dropping in a nice mild street cam, then getting it tuned. Probably in the under $3K range, labor, gaskets, materials and work....

    Talk with Amy and Bill at Bishop's Performance - Parts & Service for Harley Davidson, Buell, and other American V-Twins they are in Detroit and have a good rep with doing this and Bills a very good tuner. You could trailer the bike up drop it off and have them do the work..
  8. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    I don't quite see why spending 4-5k on an engine upgrade makes sense when you could sell the bike, add 5-6k and get a new bike with a higher power engine from the factory. Good luck though.
  9. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Well one reason is for $4 to $5K I could build an engine that will flat whip the 96 inch engines butt

    Actually I could build an 88 that will smoke a stock 96 for under a grand...

    FYI check the HP and TQ ratings on the 88 and the 96, they make darn near close to the same HP and the 96 only makes a little more TQ, it's not that big a difference, although you would have a new bike...
  10. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Because "stock sucks" !! :witsend::roflmao:

    You don't have to spend anywere near $4-5k to get a substantial power increase, but if you want to go really, really fast, you have to spend triple that. Old racing saying - "The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic money" - to which I added, "and you can't beat both". But no matter how big the engine is from the factory, it's "strangled' - can't "breathe" & there's a LOT you can do without spending a fortune.

    Just one example is an 883 Sportster bought (new) by a guy who owns a shop, dyno & races bikes - let's see what we can do with a base 883. 39 HP on the dyno stock. Change air-cleaner, replace stock mufflers with SE slip-on's, do some tuning - 53 HP. Relatively simple 883>1200cc conversion - 74 HP. Head work & cams - 101 HP.

    He's also got a 1200cc Buell that makes 121 HP - I know 'cause I was there @ the dyno when that bike was run. Each additional HP gets progressively more expensive, but using the 883 as the example, going from 39 HP to 74 didn't cost but about $750. Of course if you paid someone to do the work rather than do it yourself the cost would be higher, but the point is it's not all that difficult to make a H-D run a LOT better than it does from the factory.
  11. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Yeah, lot of folks think the new 96 and 110's are stout, when compared to a stock 80 evo, they are, the 88 is anemic at best but the 96 is a dog compared to what it could be.

    Most 95 inch builds even mild ones running around will stomp a stock 96.

    I've put a woods 6-6 in my friends 07 FLHX and it runs way better (tuned too) with stage 1 pipes and air box than a stage 1 96, and it even kept up with the new CVO Ultra 110....
  12. voodoo1

    voodoo1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    Re: Opinions needed( anemic?)

  13. Hot01

    Hot01 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,503
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Here's my story...

    I have a 2001 FXST. Came with an 88B. I took a trip across the country, and after getting out of the cramped and overcrowded East Coast, I realized how lame my motor was. I also realized how lame the East Coast is, and moved to Colorado. When I came out to interview for a job, I saw that Thunder Mountain was having a special to hop-up the 88 to a 95 for $695. I did it. That and new cams, which were chosen so that I could twist on the throttle when I was already going 55 or so and get past whoever was in my way. I don't know which cams they are offhand, but I could find out.

    It's great. I can be going along at 65, twist on the throttle, and be going 90 - 100 before I realize it. Since I'm not racing and really don't want to do 90 - 100 on a regular basis, this setup is perfect for me. And it was far less than 4 - 5K.
  14. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    18,516
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Oregon
    OK, I got to throw my 2 cents worth in, even if its not worth 2 cents to some. I'm not a mechanic but I have done a lot of work on my own bikes and know a lot about the different years of motors from 99 to present. I've done the 95 kit on a couple of bikes with cams and I can say that my 09 with the 96 motor, pipes and a stag one kit is stout and goes a hell of a lot stronger and better than my old 88B with stag one and pipes. For me I see no reason to go to a 103 and cams in it when I can also get to 90-100 really quick the way it is. This is the first Haley I've owned that I don't feel the need to pump up the motor any more than just the stage one with pips.
    Now my 01 Springer could really benefit from a 95 upgrade.
  15. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    VooDoo
    For me, I like the same, a sleeper, looks stock but runs like stink!

    Heres' a little recipe for a very stout 95, one that will run good, get good mileage, and when you crack it get the tire spinning very easy, it will suprise a lot of folks...

    95 inch HD 10.5 to 1 pistons (although with todays gas 10 to 1 might be better)
    Bore stock cyl out to fit pistons
    Heads- Stock send to Bill at Bishops for stage 2 work, larger valves, clean up intake and exhaust, send intake for same work to match it up to heads and for flow testing.
    Cam - Woods TW-6H .590 lift, advance it 4 degree (gear drive is my choice if you have an older twin cam (newer tc's just can't be gear driven reliabliy due to crank run out)
    Adjustable ignition for Carb or Powercommander for EFI

    Exhaust - THunderheader or supertrapp supermeg disk. (depends on your idea of noise)

    I was pulling 105/110 with this in my heritage, it's not an overly expensive build and will flat run, you'll have a bit of valve train clicking but nothing major... Woods cams do that.
  16. BONES

    BONES New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MACUNGIE,PA
    Thanks for the info...going to look into just that...will those pistons with that compression run ok on pump high test.
    My bike is injected
  17. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    That's why with the ethanol I was saying you might want to go 10 to 1

    As long as you run good quality super unleaded you should be fine, you can run the 6h woods cam straight up and drop compression as well...

    That was on my 00 Heritage and it rocked no knock, and started without comp releases.
    and the stock starter.

    Although I would put comp releases on it if I did it again.

    Injected is fine, I would put on a powercommander 3 usb and have it dyno tuned or, a pc 5, dyno it and then add the auto tune which adjusts the map based on riding conditions.
  18. BONES

    BONES New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MACUNGIE,PA
    Ok....i was going to ask about comp.releases...must be drilled into head correct ? Also 'woods" cams...is that anderson?
  19. BONES

    BONES New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MACUNGIE,PA
    Also i had read about crank runout.....mine is a 06..you recommend staying with chain drive?
  20. voodoo1

    voodoo1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    Re: Opinions needed thanks HRK

    Just ol' 02 carbed 88.:D Think I will start pricing parts today.

    The counterbalanced softs are sleds That is one thing I do not have. Two big chunks of metal flopping around. Rubber mounted Dyna. What little Hp/Torque I started with was more than the Counterbalanced fellas have/had and the bike weight is a bit different too. lower power and heavier,some reasons me likes my dynas..... so that is a couple of differences. I rode a couple of counters on a demo couple of years back. I dragged the floorboard on a couple and could have fallen asleep boring and slow and all that. I can see why so many go for more out of the gate.
    Later
    Voo1

Share This Page