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Stage 1 Kit, Air fuel setting??

Discussion in 'CVP Stage 1 Tuners Kit' started by David DiCesare, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. David DiCesare

    David DiCesare New Member

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    Good morning; I am a brand new member. Installed the stage 1 kit with the accelerator pump upgrade. Stock Jets on my 96 Fatboy (only mods are aftermarket pipes from previous owner and K and N filter) were 42 and 170 and the air fuel screw was 1 1/4 turns out. I am using the 45 and 180 from the kit. QUESTION is, "Where should the air/fuel mixture be?" Have already added a 1/4 turn out from instructions on Harley Performance.com to accomodate for the "lean" factory setting. Currently I am out 1 1/2 turns. Idles ok but won't accept gas under a load; just pops..I am thinking I am really lean OR there is a problem with the timing advance. Thought I would start here with you fine folks! Can anyone help?
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  2. kenfuzed

    kenfuzed Administrator Staff Member

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    Since you also installed the accelerator pump upgrade I would inspect that the pump is squirting correctly. With the bike idling and the air cleaner removed, blip the throttle. You should see a spray of fuel come from the nozzle toward the center of the throat. If the accelerator pump is not functioning you will experience missing or popping when accelerating.

    If the accelerator pump is working then start by adding another 1/8th turn out on the mixture screw.
  3. David DiCesare

    David DiCesare New Member

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    The pump seems to work wonderfully; the stream is great from the nozzle. I'll try the 1/8th turn again. If I keep going in 1/8th's and it does not resolve: 1. How far is too far and 2. Would you agree that it could be a "timing advance" issue. Just timed the machine yesterday and the advance vaccum "appeared to" be working (RPM's dropped when unplugged). Thank you for your response and all of the expertise you give to us forum members! Getting back to the first question: Is there an expected need for more more gas when the stage 1 kit is installed?
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Warm engine up.

    Set throttle stop screw to hold rpm at about 1500
    Now turn in screw until engine Idle changes or gets worse.
    Back out counting turns until engine idle improves, then gets bad or it dies.
    Cut the number of turns in 1/2 and turn in the screw that amount.

    Example, turn screw in, then back out, if it take 3 turns to hit the
    bad idle on the way out, then from that point 1.5 turns back in should
    be correct. (meaning 1.5 turns back from the bad idle at the upper end of turning the screw out, not 1.5 turns from bottom)

    Once you hit the sweet spot, turn off engine and turning screw in to lightly seat count the turns to see how many out from bottom you need to be... (meaning the 1.5 turns from bad idle might be 2.5 turns from bottom)

    Also do not over tighten when turning screw in all the way, just lightly seat it..
  5. David DiCesare

    David DiCesare New Member

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    Thank you hotroadking; I'll attempt this. S and S 124, Just a tad more machine than my l'il factory 1340!
  6. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    s&s 124!!!!! did you mention this when purchasing the kit?????????
  7. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Chuck I think he was talking about my sig line LOL
  8. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    ok...hope so.........cause i thought the jets was just a tad on the small side!! reading faster than the ol brain can keep up i guess!!!!!!!! lol
  9. ddices

    ddices New Member

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    Thank you gentlemen!

    Took your combined advice.

    I found the sweetspot and the bike runs strong throughout the curve.

    HOWEVER, I am out 4 3/8 turns on the air/fuel mix with a 45 jet. The kit also comes with a 46 so I will put that in to start. Should I skip this and go straight to a 48?

    While I have you..Should I pop in the 185 or is the 180 sufficient? (Haven't really opened her up yet so I cannot comment on her current bahavior under WOT, but did not know if you had any comment before I get to that process..)

    Thank you again; your expertise is most appreciated!
  10. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    4 turns means the pilot jet is too small, go up one size and reset idle mix screw.
    go one size at a time.

    As for the main generally on a stage 1 the stock main jet is fine because there are not any EPA regulations for WOT, in other words HD isn't restricted on WOT and they add sufficient fuel. However you may go up a size.

    I would however leave it alone until you get the pilot sorted...

    It also could mean you have an intake leak, if you have not done so check for intake leaks first, this could cause a "lean" condition that would require more fuel..

    If it does have the leak you are masking the real issue by adding tons of fuel..
  11. ddices

    ddices New Member

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    I performed the WD-40 test last night after I set the AF mix; no leaks.

    I will install the 46 and make the appropriate AF adjustments.

    From what I have read from you and others, if I still need more than 2 1/2 turns out, I should go up one more size??

    Will heed your advice on the 180 and leave it be..THIS tweaking is at the end of a carb rebuild process so I am thrilled with this fine tuning assistance!
  12. kenfuzed

    kenfuzed Administrator Staff Member

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    Hotroadking answered before I had the chance so I'll just second what he said. Go up a size (#46) on the pilot and retune the mixture screw. Since the main jet does not kick in until WOT I would leave that alone until the idle and lower midrange are spot on.
  13. ddices

    ddices New Member

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    You guys are awesome and the stage 1 kit is awesome!. I only have my brother's 89 Heritage to go by by my responsiveness and fuel delivery appears to be far superior than his. He has benefitted from some of the data I extract from this forum. Has already richened up his mixture with immediate improvement. Will keep you posted on where I land with the idle jet so readers can benefit. Best, D- If you happen to be checking..I assume that if my 46 requires more than 2 1/2 turns then I want to jump up to 48?
  14. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    well if it's 2 and 3/4 or 2 and 7/8 turns then JMO no leave it alone

    but if it's still close to 4 like 3.75 then you could give it a shot,
  15. ddices

    ddices New Member

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    Put the 46 in last night. "Start up" was the first improvemnet noticed. 2 turns of the throttle, full enrichment and one press of the start button. No stalling, perfect. Took 2 or 3 times with the 45, so that alone tells me she is getting the "right" amount of gas. Before I could fine tune the mix I noticed a leak in the back of the carb so I had to shut it down before I could finish but it looks like I will not be more than 2 turns out. Will pick up a new 0-ring after work and finish the job. Wil update if end up much different than 2 turns out. Cannot believe the vast difference between the 45 and 46 jet. Sign of my newbie status with CV carb!

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