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Time for Tensionsers and a question (ok maybe more than one)

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by smiley7661, May 4, 2009.

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  1. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    I have a 99 Electraglide with the TC88 and it has 98K on it. I just replaced all the seals in the primary and transmission after I found a leak one night and since I had it up on the lift I figured it would be a good time to check the cam tensionsers. It appears that the rear (one you see when you pull off the cover) is semi warn out. I took a flashlight and it seems that the one behind the cam plate is still in good shape......so here are my questions...

    1. is that the norm, does the rear one usually wear more than the front one.

    2. I have heard of an upgrade to hydrallic for this motor, but would it be worth it with that many miles, or could/should I wait till a motor rebuild over the winter.

    3. Is it as simple as pulling the snap ring and replacing with a new one, and if so how hard is it to get the the one behind the cam plate

    I am fairly mechanical (I just did the primary with not help other than my manual) but I am not a mechanic (I have not played on one TV either)... and have not stayed at a holidy in Express...LOL can this job be done by the average garage tinkerer?
    smiley7661, May 4, 2009
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  3. duke76

    duke76 New Member

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    Yes I have found in most cases the rear wears more than the front not always the case but usually, If this is the first time this has been torn apart for tensioners(which I cant hardly believe) I would just throw another one in there and run it, If you get almost 100 k you did very well and it isnt worth the extra to convert it, Mine were bad at 25 k, so I decided to convert to the hydraulic tensioners with the better oil pump. Be sure to replace the inner bearings with Torrington b 148, also the 99 had a recall on the outer bearings but I am sure that has already been taken care of or it would have probably greneaded itself by now. You have to take the cam plate out to do the inner one it isnt tough just takes alittle bit , If you have a manual which it sounds like you do, it is a piece of cake. Todd
    duke76, May 4, 2009
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  4. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    I am the second owner and the previous owner had the cams upgraded to the stock ones with the splines instead of the keyway.. he was very up to date on all issues so I am going to assume that these were already done. I just found it odd that one would wear different than the other but I figured there might be a different angle on the other tensioner that made it wear better. Thanks for the advice.
    smiley7661, May 4, 2009
    #3
  5. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll bet they were replaced when he did the cam area upgrade

    You can upgrade to the new HD style cam plate

    However vs putting all that money out, if you are going to run stock cams then I'd simply replace both tensioners. The steps are listed out in the Service manual.

    If you like to do your own work I'd suggest you get the SM, so you have the tq values etc. The parts manual will give you every PN you need.

    To get at the rear one requires a lot more work. But they both should be done at the same time.

    You have to remove the cam plate which means the cams are coming out, which means the lifters will drop, so, you need a method to hold up the lifters, some folks use the chrome part of the black large paper clips to hold up the lifters, Jims makes a special magnet tool that holds them in place.

    Removing the cams requires a cam gear locking tool - Jims. Or you can use a small impact that will quickly spin the bolts off but it's best to use the tool so you can lock gears in place, properly timed.
    Check your pushrods to see if they are solid or adjustable.

    With 100K on the bike you should also pull the oil pump and replace all the o-rings as they deteriorate.

    While you're in there, could find a nice set of Andrews tw 21 or 26 cams to give the bike a little more punch,

    New bearings
    New Orings
    New gaskets

    Funny how much work is in that little area, you can do it, if you have the tools.

    ONe more thing, the chains should be marked so they go back on the same way to keep them running in the same (historically) direction.

    I would polish the outside edge of the chain, making as smooth as possible no burrs this will help with tensioner life.
    hotroadking, May 5, 2009
    #4
  6. BluePearl

    BluePearl New Member

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    HRK just spent some xtra money for you smiley but it's all good advice!
    BluePearl, May 6, 2009
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  7. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    Ok went to the dealer yesterday... the tensioner was 76.00 for the outside one. But for 429.00 I could get the upgrade kit that has the new style tensioner, new oil pump, new cam plate and all the gaskets for the upgrade... I am leaning towards this. If I go buy it on Saturday I can save 15%. Is this a good idea?
    smiley7661, May 7, 2009
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  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    If it makes you feel better about riding the bike then yes,

    I don't know but do you have to change your cams to the new style as the HD cam plates on the new models have no bearings in the plate, like yours does.

    If it lets you run the older style cams why not...

    Better oiling system and tensioner design is great

    BTW Call Jenny at Fairfield, Ohio, Harley-Davidson, Motorcycle, Dealer, Used, Parts, Acccessories, Apparel tell them you want to order parts at the 20% off Internet pricing (its a special deal for customers that have followed her from store to store)

    Giver her the PN and she'll sell you the kit at 20% off, no tax reasonable
    shipping been doing it for years, it's outside Cincinnati OH.
    hotroadking, May 7, 2009
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  9. duke76

    duke76 New Member

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    duke76, May 7, 2009
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  10. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    Ok I bit the bullet (too much sunshine to have bike on the lift any longer)... the bike had already been upgraded to the splined cam by the previous owner. I opened her up got everything tore down (removed everything and even the oil pump) but now I am noticing the kit that the dealer sold me that "had everything that I need" does not have any o-rings (do I reused a $2 part) it also says that I should get the cam service kit and use the bearings from it. Is this assuming that I dont already have bearings in my bike because it is 99.. or do I really need to buy new ones?:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
    smiley7661, May 7, 2009
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  11. BluePearl

    BluePearl New Member

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    HRK already said it
    New
    O-rings
    Bearings
    Gaskets
    You got it all out, might as well put back together 100%
    BluePearl, May 7, 2009
    #10
  12. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    Thank you pearl.. I just wonder why no-one at the dealer suggested it?... i guess they just want me there for a 3rd day in a row maybe I can spend more money..LOL
    smiley7661, May 7, 2009
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  13. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    kinda like a pusher......give ya just enough to make ya have to go back!!!!!
    chucktx, May 7, 2009
    #12
  14. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    Yeah sure seems that way.. the funny thing is the guy at the dealer said see you tomorrow and I told him nah.. probably not for a few days.. but guess what.. I will be there in a few hours..LOL
    smiley7661, May 8, 2009
    #13
  15. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    anytime you work around bearings it's critical that you replace them

    Torrington b148 I think is the proper number,

    new orings are a must and be sure you replace the orings in the oil pump...
    hotroadking, May 8, 2009
    #14
  16. smiley7661

    smiley7661 New Member

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    I bought the kit that had all the o-rings and bearings for the cam install. now I have a question.. the new Oil pump does not have a groove for an o-ring where it mates up to the cam plate. This seems a little odd to me and I dont want to put it together if it is not correct. has this changed to a gasket, or did I get a funky oil pump?
    smiley7661, May 9, 2009
    #15
  17. duke76

    duke76 New Member

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    the new pump does not require an oring put it together without it, it relys on surfaces sealing itself, Todd
    duke76, May 10, 2009
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  18. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    duke did you say you went with the newer H D (07) converstion ? If so did you take any pic's ? I'am also looking into this set up for my 03 flhtpi as I turned 57K over this weekend she still runs good & no strange noises from the cam area, my bro-in-law just turned 60K on his 00 super glide & I was telling him about this set up so he's starting to check into it as well
    cowboy, May 10, 2009
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  19. duke76

    duke76 New Member

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    Yes, I did the conversion before Harley came out with a kit so I have the exact same setup as the 07 bikes, I didnt take any pictures because they are all in the service manual. I have the cam part of the service manual on the newer bikes on PDF if anyone needs them, the new conversion is very simple to install, and you dont need any special tools except for a blind hole bearing pulller to pull the inner bearing. Todd
    duke76, May 11, 2009
    #18
  20. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    chucktx, May 11, 2009
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  21. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    thank's for the link chuck guess I'll have to run to stink a dena:D
    cowboy, May 11, 2009
    #20
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