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Top Rpm questions

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by CalgBikeBum, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. CalgBikeBum

    CalgBikeBum New Member

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    Hi Folks. I have 2000 TC 88 that I upgraded to a 95 via a screaming eagle Big bore kit. I have installed the SE 211 cams. Just recently installed the CV performance carb kit which works great I might add. I have Vance&Hines Ovals as exhaust and the screaming eagle air cleaner upgrade. I have also added the BAKER DD6 six speed upgrade. Bike runs pretty darn good but.....
    When dialing on it semi hard I can easily hit 5000 rpm through the first four gears. Once I hit fifth and especially 6th it seems to run out of steam at about 4000 rpm and the throttle is pinned. It gets embarrassing when you can walk away from your friends but they then blow by me like i'm sitting still . I am a big guy 6'7" and weight about 315 lbs. so i"m like two up all the time by myself but doesn't make any sense to me? If I can hit 5000 rpm at lower gears why not in higher gears? Any ideas? (I know people here love a puzzle). Thanks in advance.:D
  2. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Is this a Road King, I ask as you said you had the V&H Ovals.

    What headers, true duals or stock

    has it been tuned on a dyno, properly,

    what Ignition are you running

    Is this the stock cv40 with the stock cv40 intake?

    Are you running stock heads.

    It sounds like the engine is running out of air or fuel or both. If you were rich it would blubber, stumble and maybe pull through a "dead spot"

    When it hits the wall, does it simply stop pulling or does it nose over, stutter.

    JMO if you are on an RK the 211 is the wrong cam, and especially with your size, I'm not quite your height but I got you on the scales LOL Bet when you crack the throttle it pulls then when it hits about 3000 RPM it really pulls, that's the 211's setup, mid to high and it's JMO suited better for a Dyna, a light bike.

    Not telling you to change things yet but lets get some information and we'll figure out where to look.

    Off the top of my head I'm thinking fuel and air restriction along with the DD6's ability to
    loose power over the 5 speed.

    What primary gear ratio are you running, did you get new clutch basket and compensating sprocket, ie DD6 gear ratio or did you stick with the stock primary ratio...
  3. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    all good questions that need answers.......to answer your question. we all love a puzzle!!!!!!
  4. CalgBikeBum

    CalgBikeBum New Member

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    They changed the primary ratio (as baker recommends) ? Whew.. Hope i answered your questions and appreciate the feedback. So far I have done all the work myself including the paint but I let baker install the 6 speed because I was at Sturgis and it was included. :) :D
  5. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I find it odd that it's stopping at 4K,
    with all the other bits you've listed it's as if you
    do not have the power to overcome the resistance of the wind
    with your weight/size, gearing etc.

    How did it run before the baker conversion, is is a DD6 or an OD6
  6. CalgBikeBum

    CalgBikeBum New Member

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    It's a DD6. And I am in same boat. I"m a logical person? If it will hit 5000 rpm in 4th. Then it should hit 5000 rpm in 5 and 6th.? I always try to get rpm up past 4000 to make sure its not struggling (LUGGING) but doesn't seem to matter? Weird.
  7. CalgBikeBum

    CalgBikeBum New Member

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    I guess I should say too that at that point its way past the legal speed limit so in reality I shouldn't be running it there anyways. Frustrating thing though to have other bikes go right by me.
  8. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    wont the stock heads hold back for the 95 kit ? just a thought , it's been a long time since I've done a harley hop up shovle head days & I did some head work to make it work right so it all came together as one same as my old hot rod days it has to breath right to run right & hold the R's up
  9. HarleysLR

    HarleysLR Active Member

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    My guess is gearing, had that same problem on a 96 Fatboy would haul butt going threw the gears but if I was cursing in 5th it wouldn’t pull steep hills or pull over 75 with out down shifting and then would not hold the speed when I would shift up to 5th. After dumping a lot of money into the motor and changing gearing that didn't help I traded the bike off.
  10. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    thats what I'm thinking
    if the engine pulls hard,
    and you have no stumbles etc

    then when you hit 5th, with your weight and size, the engines power can't push you over the 4K limit your gears might be too tall for the combination.

    Now I would take it to a dyno operator, let them do a 4th and 5th gear pull, see if it
    pulls past 4K, if so you've pretty much figured that it's running out of steam.

    The the question becomes, how do I get power out of the engine I have.

    get it dyno'd lets see what the HP and TQ curves look like (post a picture of the sheet)

    It simply might not be making power up top like you think.
  11. CalgBikeBum

    CalgBikeBum New Member

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    Okay. Thanks for ideas. It pretty much has to be something related to final gearing? As I said , I'm no lightweight but my wife is quite small (go figure) and usually my friends ride two up as well. The one guy is maybe 80 pounds lighter but his wife well...Lets just say we are pretty much equal when riding two up. HAHAHAH especially cause he's riding an ultra classic loaded up with toys. I actually have a spare set of heads i picked up like new (maybe 100 miles on them) cheap. I guess I should look for a trustworthy dyno place and see what I can find out. Do these things have speed govenors? It was an old cop bike ? Maybe they turned something off? LOL I was just thinking I could get someone lighter to test ride it and see if they can break through that barrier.:)
  12. CD

    CD Guest

    You have 95", SE211 cams, stock heads and ignition... I would recommend going to an aftermarket box with adjustable advance curves. Your current box is setup for an 88" with stock cams. Take advantage of the potential in the additional inches and larger cam.
    A good port job or head swap would wake that motor up even more.
    I had a 2KRK 95" MM, true duals, heads, cams, PCIII etc and pulled 100 /100. It was our twinkie mule at the shop.
  13. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    There are a lot of street porters,
    Mine and my friends have all been done by Bill at Bishop's Performance - Parts & Service for Harley Davidson, Buell, and other American V-Twins

    I think he is running a winter special on head work, I would go stage 1 clean up and tell Bill about your issue with hitting the wall at 4K in 5th.

    The 211 is a good mid range to higher rpm cam
    but it's not the best for making power overall

    I like Wood Performance Carburetors - High Performance Harley Carbs and Cams cams, call bobby woods to discuss
    your needs but in a 95 inch I prefer the tw6h advanced 4 degrees
    and you'd need better valve springs to accomodate it's .590 lift.

    It's noisy, clicktiy clickity clickity or tap tap tap but the
    bike will be a tq monster, buy stock in dunlap....

    I would think also SNS 570 would be a much better cam
    as would Kuryakyns wild things 2 for twin cams..
  14. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    In another post you said Road King, so I'm assuming big windshield & even without it, aerodynamics is a major factor. Just for example, an 883 Sportster picks up 7 mph with just the addition of a small "cafe racer" fairing & the rider laying down behind it.

    Aero drag increases @ the cube of velocity - in other words, to go twice as fast you need 8 times the HP & to go just 10% faster you need 33% more HP. Without much wind resistance @ lower speeds & with the "torque multiplication" factor in the lower gears, a properly-tuned engine will pull to redline just fine - but add the aero drag, the direct 5th gear ratio & the overdrive 6th & you need a LOT more power.

    You're experiencing what we call "hitting the wall" - getting to the point in the higher gears that the bike just doesn't have enough power to keep on accelerating. Sounds like your peak torque is @ 4000 rpm & at that point, a bit more more power is pretty much irrelevant - it would take moving the powerband up for a major HP increase, and/or a major reduction in aero drag to make a considerable difference. The 1st choice is very expensive & the 2nd not the least bit practical :witsend:

    So I'd say enjoy your ride without spending a gazillion dollars - as you said in another post, trying to run faster in the higher gears is over the speed limit anyway. :D
  15. CalgBikeBum

    CalgBikeBum New Member

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    Thanks for feedback. Having visited a few other Harley sites and read how other have "hit the wall" as well at about the same spot and taking into consideration their thoughts I would agree that probably it's a few factors coming into play.
    1. The gearing (with added Baker six speed DD6)
    2. The wind. I know when riding the bike with the windshield removed its all I can do to keep riding when I get much above 60 mph (100 K in Canada). I usually have the removable windshield on while highway riding.
    3. The weight and size of the rider. I am 6'7" and weigh over 320lbs. So I am like 2 up even when riding alone. Also I am Tall and wide so I push alot of wind just in physical size.
    So that being said. I have no need to ride at those speeds anyways other then the occasional blast with your friends down an empty highway for fun. Well other then hauling butt across Montana to get to Sturgis. Hahhaha

    Guess I will live with it at least until I build mine into a 103. Us big guys need the extra power just to pull us around. Hahaha I'm just thankful my wife is a small woman or we'd have a bigger problem.
    :D

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