1. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

2001 Night Train EFI

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by JohnnyBiker, May 29, 2018.

  1. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,456
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Minnesota
    OK, a buddy of mine has an 01 Night Train with EFI on it and he has a weird problem. When he pulls in the clutch the bike wants to die on him. I looked at his plugs and it is running lean and does pop on decel. Stock 88 with Samson Exhaust. Thoughts?
  2. charlie46

    charlie46 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Melbourne Fl
    My O/Ls Heritage was doing the same. Sprayed carb cleaner in the port for the idle control valve. Bingo !

    Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk
  3. charlie46

    charlie46 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Melbourne Fl
    Also added a little seafoam in tank for good measure. Runinig great now

    Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk
  4. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    south fl.
    Ok first 1 trying to read a plug with today's fuel ain't getting you no were .2 01 is probably open loop Delphi with no 02 sensors .what running device is on it ? If no piggy back device is on it .does it have a stage 1 down load.?3 right above the idle air control valve there is a black vacuum cap coming off a small tube 3/8 in diameter make sure it's there if not replace it .if it's there make sure it's not dry rotted and cracked
  5. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,456
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Thanks for the tips guys. I will get back to you when its done.
    Red Rider likes this.
  6. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,456
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Minnesota
    That port that you are talking about, that is the one that is located at the top of the TB right?
  7. charlie46

    charlie46 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Melbourne Fl
    yup that's it. Another web site suggested a bad idle control valve, so I thought let's try some carb cleaner first. Sprayed a good amount into the port and it did the trick.
  8. bambidee

    bambidee Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    upstate n/y
    Just a question for my own curiosity, doe's it start and idle correctly cold. Agree a vac leak or a dirty IAC are the most common as suggested by all.
  9. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,456
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Minnesota
    It idles just fine when not in motion and I can pull the clutch in when it is just idling and no issues.

    Now not understanding EFI all that much and talking to BaggerPaul, I do think that I have the issue narrowed down to two things.

    The owner said that his speedo quit working. Well that tells me that the VSS is going funky. I popped the tranny dipstick out and that fluid was NASTY so I changed the fluid but I did not pull the VSS to clean it. After talking to BaggerPaul and checking out some video, the problem is either the IAC or the VSS or both. I am starting to lean towards the VSS because there is another symptom happening that I did not think was related, that symptom is that the turn signals no longer want to self cancel.
  10. charlie46

    charlie46 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Melbourne Fl
    I'm feeling it's the vss now. O/Ls bike would run fine but cut out while slowing down(as she pulled in the clutch) also wouldn't idle in nuetral.

    Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk
  11. bambidee

    bambidee Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    upstate n/y
    Interesting, the more info = a quicker fix sometimes.
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,280
    Likes Received:
    439
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    The speed sensor in that year (and others) was a known failure, if the turn signals don't cancel and the speedo powers up but doesn't register speed that's the culprit, the connector on it should be located behind the splash guard in front of the rear tire.

    You can pull the sensor with a cut down allen key it has one allen, cleaning it probably won't fix it, my heritage went through 3 of them, HD had a bad run on them and it's right under the heat from the oil tank. It has nothing to do with your poor throttle response its not in the loop for operation of the EFI programming.

    Most likely a dirty injector, dirt in the fuel tank, could be the EFI return line is damaged, a very common problem, the return line gets pin holes, when you power up the bike generally it will run with a full tank, but won't with a low fuel tank, if you listen by putting your ear up to the tank you might hear it spraying fuel under pressure against the side of the tank. There is also a fuel filter in there that might need changing.
  13. charlie46

    charlie46 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Melbourne Fl
    Yeah the fuel filter was cracked in my SG and the motor wouldn't go much higher than idle.

    Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk
  14. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,280
    Likes Received:
    439
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    One way to check for the pin hole leak problem is to take screws out of the EFI canopy on the tank, turn on the ignition but don't start it and let the fuel pump prime, if there is a leak you will see or hear it, if the tank if full look for bubbles, if it is low you'll see or hear it spray fuel, don't stick your eyes down there, if the hole is in the right place it will shoot fuel out the opening.

    or

    Most accurate way I've found to check for pinholes in the fuel line is with a fuel pressure gauge. Release the fuel rail at the check valve, plug in the fuel pressure gauge, turn the ign on, run/stop switch in run position- system relay should go active for two seconds, during which time the pressure on the gauge should go up, 58-62 PSI is the standard ( AKA 4 Bar). (If pressure is low, there may be air in the line- most gauge setups have some way to bleed air from the line- bleed the air, shut the ign off, wait 30 seconds, and try again) Once the pump stops, watch the needle on the gauge- if it holds steady, or a very slow decline in pressure ( say less than 10 pound loss in 60 seconds) you're good. If the pressure drops off steadily over a minute or so, from 60PSI to <30 PSI, you have pinholes. If the pressure immediately drops to less than 30 PSI, you have a large hole or a broken regulator mount.
    HTH

    There is also a fuel relay in there that goes bad or breaks, it's a known HD EFI problem that can cause the bike to to run, it sounds like a fuel pressure problem in that you can idle.

    Does the bike rev up when you have it in neutral but no clutch in, it might anyway since there is no load.

    Check fuel pressure and for leaks, change the fuel filter anyway it's a 17 year old bike.
  15. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    south fl.
  16. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    south fl.
  17. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    south fl.
    Site just keeps duplicating HR k's post dont know why .any way pin number 33 in the wiring diagram for a 2001 night train it shows as being vehicle speed sensor input to ECU it also shares the same 5 V reference going into the vehicle speed sensor as all the other sensors as far as I know and as far as I can remember from all the years of working on Delphi fuel injection systems IAC home position has always been controlled by RPM signal and vehicle speed sensor input that way when you pull the clutch in or you come to a coast it brings the IAC back to home position and then starts raising the counts as you slow down.Thats how gm Delphi and harley as far as I know has been doing it for years with speed density.
  18. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    south fl.
    Also I never said at any point in time that would correct acceleration ! As a matter a fact that was not stated to me as a problem only a stall condition .also in no way shape or forum am I a certified you tube or Internet mechanic .you will find my credentials are that of one who has educated himself at the school of busting my ass and or taken proper training in educating and years of hard knocks running a successful business.
  19. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,456
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Minnesota
    BaggerPaul is correct, there are no issues with the acceleration on this bike whatsoever.
  20. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,456
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Just an update. This bike is fixed and running well. The VSS did fix the problem.

Share This Page