1. After 20+ years it's time to pass the torch. If you are interested in acquiring this forum please contact support@cv-performance.com for details. Any spam will be reported and blocked.
  2. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

88 CI to 98 CI UPGRADE

Discussion in 'Projects' started by JohnnyBiker, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Hobgood, N.C.
    I made one out of a piece of plywood and put castors on it. Works great. When I don't use it, I lean it up against the wall - out of sight & out of the way.
  2. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    Rolling Tool Cart w/ 5 Drawers


    Look at product video

    Use coupon#43202069
    Or I have a coupon making it 169.00
    I have this cart toolbox

    Sent from yer iPad
  3. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    That is what I need. I will say that it was very annoying looking for the same tool almost every time that you lay it down. I do think that this would be a great investment, a must have.
  4. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    6,713
    Likes Received:
    408
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I thought you were talking about a nice 20 year old babe! :cool:
  5. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I have gotten the pictures that I took downloaded to my computer now. All I need to do is to get them onto Photobucket then I will post them and go over what it is that is going on. Thanks for the patience! :D
  6. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Very nice, look forward to seeing them...

    Hey last year it was the Josh Bob Build Thread
    Now it's the Jonboy Build thread... LOL
  7. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Hobgood, N.C.
    Yeah, and the build ain't over yet LOL! Hope Johnny has better luck. :)
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Heck this will do you, $75 it's all you need when doing work,
    you can get a rubber mat for the drawer and top, put a magnet across the back
    to hang wrenches, put parts in the top,

    http://www.harborfreight.com/large-steel-tool-cart-with-locking-drawer-90428.html

    or if you need a little more organization 3 drawer for $159

    http://www.harborfreight.com/580-lb-capacity-four-drawer-tool-cart-95659.html

    All the carts

    http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=tool cart

    They are having a 50% sale on Monday the 29th...
  9. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Hobgood, N.C.
    That is a nice cart for $75. I might get one. :cool:
  10. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The first line of order was to get the old pistons off of the rods as I left them on over the winter to help aid in not letting debris or dirt into the case. This was a straight forward process of just popping off the clips using a small flathead screwdriver and BEING REALLY CAREFUL not to let that clip fall into the case. I thought it to be a good idea to have a few rags covering the case so that possibility was reduced dramatically.

    Here is a picture of the pistons now removed.

    [​IMG]

    Once the pistons were removed, I thought it was a good time to check the pin bushings and to double check for play in the rods. All was good there so I decided it was OK to move forward as I thought the bushing looked like brand new. A good sign that the bottom end is still strong.

    The next step was to check the deck height. Sorry, but I did not take any pictures of this process as it requires all hands on deck (pun intended). All that was done to do this was that a piston was installed on a rod without a rings. This was kind of pain in the butt and takes complete concentration. Once the highest point of travel was found, install a jug with bottom O-ring and no piston rings installed. I made sure that the jug was as far down as it possibly would go. Now the measurement was taken from the top of piston to the top of the case. Not sure that I was 100% accurate but I do think that I was really really close. If you are looking for a 0 deck height, which in this case I was, I think that I am going to be there because I was about .003" below deck. I am taking into consideration piston swell as the piston heats up. I am comfortable here and stayed put, no additional machining needed.
  11. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    The one I posted I bought
    It has the tray on bottom, and a try on the side
    It has a place for screw drivers
    With it being 5 drawers, it has a pretty good amount of room
    The slides on the drawers are nice
    It holds a lot
  12. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    After the deck height was checked, it was time to move on to setting the ring gaps. There are many ways to do this and I am positive that they al are just as tedious as the next. Here is how mine were done. Before I get into specifics, make sure that your jugs are as clean as possible from debris from the boring process, making sure that there is no noticeable metal shavings visible. If there are, wipe the bore down gently to clean it out.

    1.) Locate the rings and look for the markings on the ring. The marking on the ring indicates the top end of the ring.
    2.) Once the marking has been located, take the ring and place into the bore of jug and push it down just a little ways. You will see the ends of the gaps close. Once the ring is in the bore, take a piston and slide it through the bottom of the bore and use the crown of the piston to square the ring in the bore.
    3.) Remove the piston.
    4.) Find your feeler gauge and measure the gap of the rings. For proper a proper reading, there should be a slight drag on the gauge.

    Now, each manufacturer have different recommendations on what the ring end gap should be. I have found that the there is a general accepted equation for end gaps which is .004" per 1" of bore. I have also heard that you can or should set the top gap and the bottom gap differently, but I don't think that this is an absolute must and is not how I set mine.

    5.) Once you have measured what your starting end gap distance is, remove the ring and bring it to the ring filer. Place the ring with the marking that indicates the top of the facing up onto the ring filer. NOTE!!! DO NOT APPLY TOO MUCH FORWARD PRESSURE ON THE RING. You do not want the ring to bind. Allow the ring to square itself up against the pegs. By not applying too much pressure, you will accomplish a nice and square edge on the ring!!
    6.) Once you have verified that you are square on the filer, turn the handle on the filer making sure that the end of the gap maintains contact to the file wheel. Again, make sure that ring remains square. NOTE!! Go in small increments while filing. Go about 5 complete turns.
    7.) After you are done with this and are ready to check gap distance, make sure that you wipe the ring down with a rag soaked with a little bit of WD-40 and clean perfectly.
    8.) Repeat steps 1-7 until the desired gap has been achieved.
    9.) Repeat on next jug.

    When you are done with one set of rings, keep them with that jug. Do not mix those rings up with each other. VERY IMPORTANT!!

    NOTE!! I highly suggest that when you check ring gap, check the gap at different points in the bore as this will give you an idea of how well your machinist did at boring them. Example. If you check gap at the top of the jug and you get a reading of .012" and then you move the ring down and you get a reading of .010," what do you think is wrong? Also when checking the ring gap, there should be a slight drag on the feeler gauge.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  13. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,682
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    remember that the cylinder shape will change when torqued
    when your cyl were bored they generally use TQ plates to simulate the
    cylinder in the installed position with the proper bolt torque, then you
    bore the cylinder, so you might get a different reading if it's not installed on the bike

    Have you installed the pistons and cyl on the engine?

    If not be sure all the orings that go on the cyl are there before you start, nothing like having to do it all over.

    Also one trick is to oil lightly the cyl walls, install the piston with rings into the cyl, tap it down just below the bottom of the cyl, dont let the bottom ring come out, this should give you clearance with the rods down a bit to get the cyl with piston over the studs, you might need help with someone holding it in position, then install the piston on the rod and put in the clip
  14. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. I am doing this in a specific order. I will get to all of that. ;)

    Yes, the jugs were torque plated but that does not guarantee that you may have a shiity machinist. I guess I just take for granted that all cylinders are torque plated when machined, but you are right, that is not always the case.
  15. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    After the gaps were set, I wanted to move onto the cam chest and start to get that buttoned up. It was then that it was noticed that I didn't have all of the o-rings that I needed. The ones that were missing were the o rings that are for the oil return from the case to the bottom of the cylinder and also I was missing one of the oil pump o-rings, not the one that goes into the oil pump housing, but one that goes in the cavity. There are two on top of each other. I called up my indy and he didn't have any on hand so I called up the nearest dealer to see if they had any on hand. the did, so I sent Hot Rider to go and ge them. She is awesome as she drove in fuggen snow storm to get them. Way cool. :cool:

    In the meantime while I was waiting for her to get back, that is when the LMR Oil Pressure Spring was switched. See previous post relating to this part of the process.

    After the oil spring was installed, a little bit of time passed and the wife had returned from the dealership and I was able to move on. The o-rings were installed in the proper place. From there, I took one last look at the oil pump to make sure that the pump's internals were installed correctly. They were so I then proceeded to put assembly lube onto the shaft and in the oil pump itself. I put a lot on the inside of the housing and on the gerotors.

    At this point I thought that it was time to remove the old inner cam bearings and install the new inner cam bearings. this was a straight forward process and was pretty simple actually. I had purchased a inner cam bearing install and removal tool from George's Garage, and I have to admit, one of the best tools that I have ever owned. I just simply followed the instructions that wer provide with the tools and they were very precise. I put assembly lube on the OD of the bearings and on the ID of the bearing bores.

    Here is a picture with the cam bearings removed.... It is a little fuzzy, sorry..

    [​IMG]

    Now here is a picture with the new cam bearings installed...

    [​IMG]

    When installing the cam bearings, make sure that the writing on the bearing face is facing you during install. That is the correct way to install them. I want to give some props to George's Garage as the install tool was an awesome design. It was designed in such a way that it wouldn't allow you to over install the bearing, By that I mean, it wouldn't allow you to push the bearing in too far as it was stepped and that step hit the case when the bearing was installed at proper depth. Nice tool.
  16. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Now with all of the proper o-rings on hand and installed when needed, I moved on to the oil pump. Before install, I took one last look at the oil pump to make sure that the pump's internals were installed correctly. They were so I then proceeded to put assembly lube onto the shaft and in the oil pump itself. I put a lot on the inside of the housing and on the gerotors.

    Now here is the thing that I spent a lot of time asking questions about. during the past year. Everyone has seen those alignment dowels that are sold to help align the pump and cam plate as they are being installed as an assembly. I did not buy them as I was given a great tip on how to install that pump. Here is how to do it..

    Make sure that your oil pump has been lubed up and assembled correctly. Bring it to the cam chest, align the flats of the pump to the flats of the crank shaft, and slide the pump on making sure that the o-ring seats properly into the hole that it belongs in. That pump is only going to fit on one way.

    Cowboy, here is a picture of how to get his bad boy on without those alignment screws. I hope this helps.

    [​IMG]

    It looked good so it was off to putting the cam plate on.

    [​IMG]

    I must say that taking the time during disassembly to bag each set of bolts and nuts and labeling them sure saved a lot of time in getting this thing back together. Oh, I wanted to mention that none of these bolts were torqued down as I have been told too many horror stories of cases being stripped out. IF something fails, then it will be a lesson learned.:D
  17. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I wanted to show a picture of the Inner Cam Bearing Install tool as I do think that it is just a great tool to have in the box.

    This is a picture of the part where the bearing sits on when it is being installed. Notice how it is stepped. This is a perfect design as it will not allow you to over install the bearing too far into the case.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now here is a picture of the plate where the mandrel goes through. Make sure that you have the GG facing towards you as it does have to fit up to the case a certain way. There are 4 screws that are used to to hold the plate semi secured to the case. No need to tighten all the way up.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a link to the site of where I purchased it if this is something that you think that you want to buy. I highly recommend having one of these.. :D 99-06 T/Cam Engine Scroll down until you see the removal and install tool.
  18. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    After the cam plate was put on it was time to move on to the gear drives. Nothing much here, straight up install. I did put the regular S&S keyway instead of advancing the cams +4.*

    [​IMG]

    I wanted to add that I did put some assembly lube on the cogs of the gear drives as it was pointed out that just to be on the safe side, not to dry fire the gears when it is tested for oil pressure.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  19. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Minnesota
    After the gear drives were installed, Hot Rider wasn't back just yet from getting those o-rings that I needed so a short break was taken. After a brief moment, I thought that it would be a good time to drain the primary so I could take the starter out and change to change the starter clutch and the clutch spring.

    I want to say since this is the first time that I have had this much of my bike apart, learning the little tricks how to do things on these baggers is somewhat challenging.

    Trying to get at the starter is a real PITA until you discover that you have to take the oil dipstick off the bike. Once that is off the bike, then you can get at the bolts that are needed. to back up a little, once the primary was drained, I took off the cover so I can get at the jack shaft for the starter. Take out that center bolt with the stupid clip on it, then proceed from the other side to remove the starter. I thought that it would be really easy to get the old starter clutch out but it took a little bit of coaxing with a large socket and a soft blow hammer. Once it came out, it was pretty smooth sailing. Here is a picture of the old starter clutch.

    You can't really see anything by the picture but lets just say the shaft moved in every direction. It isn't supposed to do that, from my understanding. :D

    [​IMG]

    The install of the new starter clutch was pretty straight forward. I suggest that you put some white lithium grease around the bearing during install to possibly help with longevity.

    After the starter clutch was put in and the starter reassembled, I moved to the primary to remove the clutch spring. That was pretty straight forward, just had to learn the trick to break the bolts loose without spinning the basket. Put your wrench on the bolts and give the wrench a quick tap with a soft blow hammer and they break loose. Once those were done, I removed the clutch spring, installed the new one and reassembled in reverse order.

    Here is a picture of the clutch hub... I am not sure if this before or after the switch of the clutch spring anymore...

    [​IMG]

    After the bolts were reinstalled in the hub, it was time to put the starter back in. That was a two person job so I got a second pair of hands. Reinstall the starter in reverse order.

    Here is a picture with the primary cover reinstalled. It was really fun taking the inspection cover off this primary as I broke the torqx bit and had to run and get a new one. That always turns out to be fun in this town when I need to get a tool. However, I got what I needed.

    [​IMG]
  20. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    6,713
    Likes Received:
    408
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Super job on the "play-by-play" and photos JB ! Yer getting me motivated !!!!

Share This Page