Blood, sweat, tears & beers . . .

If I might say one more thing about points ignition. I really don't mind messing with them. What gets me is that the manual instructions aren't working and neither is the advice from J&P. In both cases, some little thing is being left out of the instructions. IF ONLY I COULD GET THE REAL INFO I NEED! I've been looking everywhere, but everything now is how to do EI for Harleys.
Anyway, I'm awaiting the latest batch of goodies from J&P, including the so-called "static timer" that will hopefully get me over the hump.
If it works, I'll post it in the tech section.

It's not a light - I have one of those and have used it. (See pic of the gizmo I ordered). The problem is that the points plate will not turn far enough clockwise to open the points on the small lobe of the advance cam when the front piston is just BTC (retarded 5 degrees BTC). According to THE MANUAL, that is the approximate setting for static timing, where the small drilled hole in the flywheel begins to appear at the lower right portion of the inspection hole. (See pic of inspection hole showing the position of the drilled dot). This is when the front piston is on the compression stroke and still moving upward.
So, I set the point plate as far as it would adjust clockwise (the points still would not open, cam lobe needed to move counterclockwise another 1/4" or so). Then I turned the crank shaft (in the direction the motor runs) a bit more until the cam turned and points opened (using test light, key on). At this setting the front piston was well on it's way past TDC. I believe the plug is supposed to fire around BTC and not on the downstroke of the piston, correct? So, that setting has to be way off.
The gizmo I'm getting is supposed to somehow lock the advance unit into it's advanced position. The points can then be adjusted to open where they should. At least, that's what I'm hoping . . .

If you replaced the rocker boxes and the gaskets all those times and it still ended up leaking maybe the head is warped. Ultima engines, well, I've heard good and bad about them.

:gah::gah:Here's a little update on the oil pump mess. I got the pump off - in pieces. No one seems to be able to pin point what year it is - but it's not the one that originally came with the '77 motor. Also have searched ALL the catalogs I have and also went to Harley and cannot find a set of gaskets to exactly match the ones in the first pic. So, I'm going to TRY and make a set out of some mylar I have (see same pic, mylar underneath the paper gaskets).
Another bummer is that there is no helicoil made to take a 1/4" x 24 TPI bolt. Looks like I am going to have to drill a 5/16" hole thru the bottom left pump holes and into the crankcase and tap into the crankcase with a 5/16" tap. Drove over a hundred miles today trying to find some parts & answers. Means I'll have to use an ugly-ass hex head bolt instead of the original chrome allen bolt (see pic). Unless anyone has a better idea?
Boys, this motorcycle is really giving me the blues right now - I'm about ready to quit and sell it as is - but I'd never come even close to getting what I put into it. Right now all I have is a 12,000 dollar 500 pound paperweight sitting my shop and I'm no closer now to riding than I was 6 months ago.

Don't quit now Joshbob....when you do get it it'll be worth every aggravating moment you spent on it.... Could it be a S&S pump,thats what I thought looking at one of your pics earlier...

Yes, Lucifer, that's what I thought because the gaskets seem to match up with the S&S pump from the pictures I've seen in the V-Twin catalog. But the S&S has its logo stamped on the cover and my cover is plain - just like a big twin one. Right now I'm cutting out some gaskets and will post pics when through.
This business with the stripped threads in the crankcase really sucks the big weenie. I borrowed an angle drill from a friend and it looks like I can get in and drill the 5/16" hole if I cut some of the drill bit off to make it shorter.

Yesterday I went to NAPA for tap & drill & helicoil- said they only had coarse thread (1/4" x 20). Sent me to Eastern Tool (long drive) who specializes in machine shop stuff - told me there is no such animal as a 1/4" x 24 TPI helicoil. Screw it.
Last night I made the mylar gaskets (sorry, no pics, I forgot)- they came out very good - all the openings came out perfectly positioned & clean. Then I drank a couple of beers & drilled the slightly oversized holes in the cover & pump body. Then I drilled out the hole in the crankcase and tapped it for the 5/16" x 24 TPI hex head bolt. Then, after dry fitting everything, I sprayed copper gasket stuff on both sides of the gaskets & cleaned all surfaces of oil. Then I put the pump body on making sure the gears went on the same way I took them off. Had to take the gearcase cover off so I could push the pump drive shaft out far enough so I could reinstall the lock ring over the end of the shaft. Then I put the gearcase cover back on. BTW, there were no timing marks on the gears, so I couldn't tell if they had been put in wrong. Then I put the pump cover on & tightened the bolts just past snug - not wanting to strip anything else. Then I refilled the oil tank. Then I went to bed as it was around 2 AM.
Woke up this morning and went straight to the shop and felt under the pump. NO LEAKS!
Then I took the spark plugs out and kicked the thing over at least 50 times. NO LEAKS!
TYL. (Thank you, Lord)! Pic shows the new bolt on lower left of pump body - the exhaust pipe will cover it so it won't show.

I hope not! Went out this afternnon and kicked it a bunch more times and . . . still no leaks anywhere! I checked the torque on the bolts and they are tighter than the recommended 45 to 50 inch lbs. I'm leaving them right where they are!

My J&P order arrived today: coil, new points plate with studs, and the timing gizmo. I timed the bike with it, though not quite the way they say to use it. HRK, I think you're right about something being catawampus. I suspect it may be they missed the timing gear by a tooth or something. When I had the gearcase cover off, the gears looked totally different than the ones in the manual photo. The manual showed timing marks on all three gears - mine showed no markings of any kind - how did they know how to time it, I wonder?
Anyhow, the gizmo did come with easy to follow instructions. When I got to the point where I move the points plate, the same thing happened as before - the plate wouldn't move far enough clockwise. So, I timed it to the retarded mark in stead of the advanced mark like the instructions say. That way, the points did open when I moved the plate clockwise. The gizmo is used to fit over the cam and turn the thing counterclockwise until it stops - then tighten the screw and it holds the cam in place. Then you set the points with a light until they just begin to open. I'll find out tomorrow if this timing will work because the welder is coming out in the morning to do the final welding on the frame. Then I'll put the pipes on and attempt to start it up for the first time. Holy Cow, tomorrow's the day! The weather will be great and maybe, just maybe, I'll be riding by lunch time!!!!
Here is a pic of the gizmo and the instruction sheet that came with it if anyone is interested: Sorry, the print on the instructions is too small to read.

Thanks HRK, but by the time I read this, I had already used the oversized bolt.

Instead of taking the cover off the front pushrod to observe the up & down movement, I have been turning the motor over with a socket until I can feel the pressure build up on the front cylinder. That would have to be the compression stroke for the front cylinder, right? Then I turn the crank a little farther until the small dot begins to show in the inspection hole. Before I get to the small dot I pass by the advanced timing mark (the vertical line). It comes up the same way every time - with the small lobe too far away to open the points. When I try to adjust the point plate clockwise it will not move far enough to open the points. It's just missing by a little bit. That's the problem.
A note about the pushrods. I believe the front one on the front cylinder is for the exhaust and the one nearest the carb is the intake. I am confused as to which one to use. Manual says the "front pushrod" which I take to mean the exhaust one & instructions that came with the gizmo say "intake pushrod" which I take to mean the one nearest the carb. So I used the gizmo instructions and the LARGE cam lobe came into position instead of the SMALL cam lobe. The points could have been adjusted but I was on the wrong cam lobe, the LARGE one. This is very confusing to me. The cam only goes on one way - it can't go on backwards. That is why I used the old finger in the spark plug hole trick to determine the compression stroke on the front cylinder - when I felt the pressure building I had to be on the compression stroke, right?
At any rate, the points are still not set correctly.
I have emailed the engine builder but have not gotten an answer yet.

Joshbob,since that gizmo is supposed to lock the points cam in the full advance position,shouldn't you use the advance mark on the flywheels...I could be way off,I was barley a teenager when the ol'man had me messin' with points on V-8's and I was very quick to jump to electronic ignitions because of it LOL....here's something I found...check out page 12

http://www.ultimaproducts.com/ShovelheadEngineManual.pdf

Yes, I did use the advance mark (vertical line) when using the gizmo, as per instructions, and the the points were near to opening, but on the LARGE cam lobe instead of the narrow one. Is it possible I'm not setting the front piston on compression stroke? I'm doing it by feeling the pressure with my thumb over the plug hole.
I could be doing something wrong but I'm danged if I can figure it out. I'm going out to the shop in a little while and start all over again using the gizmo. It's a real head scratcher . . .