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Clutch woes . . .

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by joshbob, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    Buying used parts is a bad idea Buddy. I think that has been where most if not all of your problems have stemmed from.
    My bikes have the same BDL belt drives. One bike has the stock clutch and hub with a tamer and the hi-po bike has a primo rivera diaphram type clutch and drum.
    The diaphram type is awesome but it's about $600 just for the clutch.
    For your bike I would just go with the cheapest stock replacement clutch parts you can find alonf with a new drum and hub. I think the used drum you had was junk. Maybe it was warped, dented or not machined properly. Where did you get it? Maybe your tranny shaft is bent. Make sure the drum is spinning true and not wobbling. And/or they we not aligned properly. That's why your belt is chaffing.
    Please don't buy anymore used parts. When you do that you are just buying someones else's problems.
    PS. How does you speedometer connect to your tranny? I want to go with that option if I can.
    Thanks.
  2. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Used exhausts, or mirrors, fenders are fine, even used cables
    if someone is just swapping out stock for braided SS, but used internal engine and tranny
    parts can be a issue, you just need to get your fingers on them before you buy..
  3. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Chalk it up to lessons learned. Tommy, speedo cable connects to top of tranny (ratchet). The mini speedo is attached by a bracket I made to the rear motor mount bolt and had Barnett make me a special length cable. Works great. What's the deal about a "tamer"? What is it, and how does it work? Do I really need one?

    The used pulley and basket were BDL, but the teeth were worn and they began wearing the belt out prematurely. All new stuff is going back in: BDL pulley, basket & belt, new stock style hub with the long style needle bearings, new clutch discs. Keeping the steel spacers because they are in good shape and flat. Also keeping the pressure plate and springs. Cost to replace is still around $400.

    My rear caliper & anchor came yesterday and I spent the afternoon & evening mocking it up. I got the inside shimmed for proper centering of the caliper over the rotor; just need a 5/8" spacer for the outside. Cut several bolts to length and a bolt sleeve for the frame bracket. It looks fantastic hanging there at about 7 o'clock! I still need to polish the stainless bracket and a little touch up paint here and there. The caliper is a two piston Nissen.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  4. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    Sweet deal. You shouldn't have much of anything else to go bad now. Just about fixed or replaced everything. (me too).
    The clutch tamer is a disc that attaches to the clutch hub with snap rings. It keeps the clutch shell from moving out away (osilating) from the tranny when you pull in the clutch lever. It helps in getting the bike in neutral and in switching gears. Also extends the life of the belt b/c the shell stays in alignment with the fron pulley.I would install one if I were you. Well worth the money. That could be what was causing your problem from the get go.
  5. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    I didn't have a clutch tamer in but I did have an insert that had different depth holes and snap rings. They are made for 3 finger hubs but I have a five finger. Was only able to use two of the holes with snap rings.

    I assume that with the tamer you can use all five studs with snap rings?

    Before I pulled the hub this last time there was quite a bit of in and out movement. I'm sure that contributed to the excessive galling I had on the inside friction plate, plus when I had it turned, I didn't compensate for the extra depth that was removed with a shim. Pretty dumb mistake. Costly, too. :eek:
  6. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    I bought almost everything mail order. It was all supposed to be rebuilt either with NOS or brand new parts. Yeah, right. I still don't know the status of the tranny gears. They are the last thing that hasn't actually been inspected by me and Tattoo. So far, they are working and shifting fine with no unusual noises.

    Setting up the clutch like I did was my fault. I tried to save a little money and now I have to spend twice as much to cover my mistakes. Never again.

    Heck of a thing, isn't it, the stuff one has to go through just to roll down the road on two wheels.
  7. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Well, I got the rear brake in. It works and looks fantastic! I just have to depress the pedal about a 1/4" and brake is engaged. Before, with the banana, the pedal went all the way down - I could never seem to get it bled properly. Man, what a difference.

    On Friday, I ordered the hub, tamer kit, and clutch friction discs. If I didn't have to repair the truck this week, I'd have gotten the BDL stuff, too.

    Anyway, I'm really stoked about the rear brake. :)
  8. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    :roflmao:You'll be laying a few strips,now that you have a brake that works...
  9. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    After having looked the clutch tamer over, I found that I don't need to use retainer snap rings or the little hold down springs.

    Kit is supplied with a nylatron & aluminum backing plate (both are used), plus a special aluminum spool that holds the retaining rings in place. The kit came with shims to get the right spacing between the hub and basket ( .010" to .015" freeplay). Must use red locktite on the clutch hub nut as the lock washer is no longer used, either. Torque is 50 ft. lbs., I believe.

    In a couple days, I'll be ordering the BDL open belt drive kit and hope to be riding by next week. Spring is finally here with temps in the upper 70s/lower 80s. :D
  10. alex the dog

    alex the dog Active Member

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    Sorry I came in on this late Josh, but I think the real problem in the first place is the tranny/motor alignment is off a bit. You need to check this with a long straight edge across the tranny sprocket and motor sprocket.

    Also, shovels always had a problem with the tranny torquing out of alignment with the motor. A fix came from mounting a plate between the tranny/motor on the right side to eliminate this flex. It was called a "torque arm" and I think it was made by Carlini?
  11. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    The alignment is perfect - checked it with a metal straightedge. I could have bought one from FabKevin, but he said he never had problems with the tranny moving. He was right. Mine hasn't moved at all since I finished the build.

    Since I don't have a front sprocket, I have to check my alignment by the pulleys.
  12. alex the dog

    alex the dog Active Member

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    Some call the pulley a sprocket since it has teeth.

    You won't actually see the movement cuz the primary holds the two cases together, but move it does. On a chain primary, there is a little more freedom to move the two cases around without seeing damage. But there have been many documented problems where the primary case starts to crack just from the tranny torque. A belt drive is easier on the bearings, but slight mis-alignment and torquing shows itself in burned belt edge and clutch discs.
  13. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Evo Dyna's had that problem...the early one's at least...:drunk:
  14. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Open primary 1 1/2" belt drive shovelheads don't have those problems LOL. My belt looked good on the edges when I took it off, but was wearing a bit on the inside in places because I bought a USED open primary that had worn teeth. Doh! I thought it would be "okay". But the alignment was right on.

    My bike weighs about half what a bagger does, and I weigh about half what most of you guys weigh LOL. Plus I don't carry a passenger, or hot shoe it, or carry any extra weight.

    All my old clutch discs looked new except the last one on the inside and I know what caused that - more stupidity by yers truly.

    Anyhow, I feel confident once I get this new set up going, it's gonna work like gangbusters. Dang - new clutch, new rear brake, new early style throwout bearing & pushrod, new rings, rebuilt heads, honed cylinders, solid lifters. Boys, I'm gonna be sh**tin' in high cotton!
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  15. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    Ya built that bike twice my brother . The only thing you have not had to do is the frame hand controls and bars . You have redone all that you listed and the trany and kicker to boot. You are a trooper . You should be blessed with a awesome riding season! Many other sissy bikers would have gave up on that rigid shovel and went out and bought another bike and started over. My hats off to you jb I have much respect for you. ! Enjoy the fruits of your labor
  16. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Thanks BP, I hope to be riding soon. Tattoo is waiting for me to tool over to his shop so we can go for a ride. We think there are only a couple of kickstart shovels in this part of the state. We may go visit another guy with one and ride together. Holy thunder! LOL
  17. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    Awesome. Sounds like a good plan. Have fun.
  18. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree with you more:cheers:joshbob,keep the rubber side down and a grin from ear to ear:chopper:
  19. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    See lots of bikers here not grinning - they be sooo serious!:roflmao:
  20. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Ordered the last remaining clutch parts yesterday and should get them by the end of next week. Shouldn't be long now - I've been chomping at the bit to ride - all week was around the 80s and going in the normal 70s next week. :)

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