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double trouble

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by joshbob, May 16, 2014.

  1. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd convert it to electronic ignition with the kick start option switch.
    One less thing to screw with, there's a reason nobody makes bikes and cars
    with points anymore, no reason to have to mess with that stuff, when you can
    be very accurate and reliable.
  2. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Spark is white. Condensor/points are only months old. Ignition coil needs to be checked and I'm trying to find out how to do it without changing it out.
    I think it's carb related or the timing needs to be retarded. I forget which way to tweak the point plate to retard it - I think it's counterclockwise? Will check fuel flow again.
  3. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    That's the way to go. Had forgotten about converting over to E.I. But that's $300 I don't have right now. Maybe I'll spring for an E.I. unit next week. It might just solve the problem. Right now I'm grounded . . .
  4. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    First thing I would check is the kill switch .bypass it second thing I would do is pull both plugs out set a plug at 60 thousands gap and spin the motor over while looking at the plugs if it can jump a 60 thousands gap on both plugs the coil is good.done deal.if it cant check for good power at the coil if the power is good coil is junk. Done deal its diagnosed.
  5. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Thanks BP. Tomorrow I'll disconnect the kill switch and try starting it - I hadn't thought of that. If no luck, then I'll do the coil test as you say with the .060" gap at each plug.
    Today was a tough day. Mac the Wife and I had to put down our 14 year old border collie "Willow". She was doing poorly anyway and then had a stroke over the weekend. We buried her in the back yard next to my shop.
  6. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    sorry to here about your dog after 14 years that's hard , as for your bike ,as soon as you can swap to the EI it will take a lot of guess work out of the way ,I did that change on my 73 shovel & never looked back , also it could be a bad tank of gas & junked up your carb , if the test BP said to do passes then I would drop the carb bowl & see whats in there
  7. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    Very sorry to hear about your pup .I know the feeling of having to loose your pet .seems that over the years and being a dog lover my yard is like a pet cemetery. Got alot of loyal friends in my back yard..
  8. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    I still can't get it started. Maybe I should use a different timing mark, I don't know. But I'm going to have to remove the timing plug again to do that as I bondoed it on (it's stripped). I filed the timing marks on the edge of the block and front pulley so I wouldn't have to keep taking the plug out. All it will do is cough once with a lot of smoke jumping out the air cleaner no matter where I set the timing plate. If I turn it too far counterclockwise it starts to kickback. Coil is good. I'm getting spark, fuel and my leg tells me I'm getting compression. I think something is wrong with the timing but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Put in new points and condensor, too. Disconnected the kill switch but it made no difference whether it was hooked up or not.

    I don't know whether to take the carb off or what. Getting pretty frustrated with it.

    As for our Willow, she's not suffering any more and that's the only consolation we have right now.
  9. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    Ok lets calm down for a min .you said you have the marked on the side of the case.so work off that mark .45 deg before tdc is right when you shold start to see the points fire .put back the cam slot for the points were you had it set up verify that you have every thing the way it was before you pull the carb if you think its a fuel flow issuie introduce fuel via carb cleaner from a can .and spray it insted of useing the carb for fuel just shut the pep **** off . And see if it fires off the can
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  10. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    OK. Today I made certain the timing was set the same way when the bike was running. Points gapped properly. Took the air cleaner off and shot some starting fluid into carb. Kicked and same results - one or two coughs, maybe three and the usual smoke. Shot some more starting fluid in and same results.

    There are two more things I can look into. 1.) I will recheck the pushrods, and 2.) I will take the fuel pump off and inspect for holes in the diaphram and make sure all the linkage is working as it should.

    Also, I have PM'd Prodrag1320 for advice. A guy on the shovel forum said that my new cam (Andrews #1) is not a bolt in for stock heads.
  11. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OK lemmie get this right, the bike was running with this new cam and head work and now it's stopped running?

    If that's the case the cam isn't the problem unless the gear moved and that's doubtful.
  12. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Agree with HRK....Josh...did the hard starting begin after you readjusted the pushrods/valves?? If you adusted them a little too tight and the valves are hanging open wouldnt the intake charge flow right through the combustion chamber and out the exhaust valves??
  13. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    I haven't readjusted the pushrods yet - will do it tonight.
  14. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    Ok if we have spark fuel and compression it has to run .so reading back through all the posts. You said it felt like the kicker was not correct .I know it seems stupid .but are you getting enough rotation out of the kicker to fire the motor? Or does it feel short of the stroke.the dam thing ran good after the work was completed. So cam and valve adjustment cant be the issuie .and valves dont tighten up they get loose after run in time.
  15. baggerpaul

    baggerpaul Well-Known Member

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    Unless the key way sheard off one of the gears it cant go out of time
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly my point something else is off
  17. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    I thought that's what you said in the 1st post....

    I think you're onto something there BP...and makes perfect sense...if the motor was running fine before the kicker started acting up and you haven't done anything to the motor,look at the kicker problem first...be hard to start with only 1/2 or 1/4 kick even with my weight behind it,which is just about double yours JB:p
  18. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    Tattoo told me to get a back pack with a couple bricks in it LOL. OK. Last night I readjusted the pushrods (valves) and found the rear intake to be quite loose. The front intake was tighter than dick's hatband. Anyhow, I kicked it about 10 times or so and the "jam" appears to have gone away! But it still wouldn't start.

    I took the cam lobe off the end of the cam shaft and turned it 180 degrees because I needed to get the points to open on the NARROW cam lobe when using the timing light. This method times the front cylinder. Still, no dice. I believe the cam lobe is in the correct position now. I must have put it in wrong before, although the bike ran with it that way. EITHER way, the bike still won't start.

    I believe I'm kicking it over enough to start it. I usually get the kicker in the 10 o'clock position and kick and it has always fired before. It simply coughs all the time. Tattoo thinks it's too lean. And it has always started before with the mix screw out about 1 3/4 turns. He suggested I put a 50 pilot jet in exchange for the 48 I had in it. I did that about 3 weeks ago. Should I go back to the 48?
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  19. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Was it starting good before you put the 50 in?
  20. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    No. And it coughed like it does now. Difference now is that my pipes have turned bluer since changing to a larger pilot.

    At least the kicker is working now like it should. After I redid the pushrods last night, it kicks like it used to, no problem.

    I'm beginning to think I may have to take the cone cover off and see if anything has shifted or broken inside.

    Front spark plug looks a bit sooty while the back one looks pretty good. I only have a few hundred miles on them . . .

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