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Harley 4 speed tranny is hard to find neutral

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by Tommyc, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    What does total loss oiling system mean?
    Was my 1983 FXE one of such?
    65 model? Meaning? 1965?
    Excuse me for my ignorance. I'm not a mechanic just a regualar guy that fixes his own bikes,
  2. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    total loss= you put oil in the oil tank. this oil would lube the engine, primary chain,rear chain. as the rear chain and primary chain were not in sealed housings, the oil would drip to the ground. the amount of oil sent to these chains was adjustable, but it still went to the ground. if you never added oil, it would eventually run dry.......so, it is a total loss system. your 83 was a sealed system, and should not have leaked oil. 65=1965 big twin
  3. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    I understand now. Thank you.
    I know my inner primary had a hose barb that came from the oil pump to oil it. There was also a suction line that went back to the oil pump too, I think.
    So did the rear chain has an oiler also?
    Why do all of the shovelhead primary's leak? Was it just a bad design?
    I know bigbear choppers has a chain primary that does not leak (supposedly). The problem with their design is that it costs about $3000 for their custom set-up.
    I just converted my chain to a belt to avoid the leaking. Now I find out the F-ing tranny leaks too. I think both ends have seals that leak. Prolly the drain plug leaks also. So, my soultion to that is to pull it and rebuild it. Should I upgrade to the stronger shift forks?
    Big pain in the a$$. All that work just to fix something that soundn't leak in the first place. Anyway, I love my american bikes and will not trade them for anything.
    Thanks for your help Chuck!!!
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Total loss = Dry sump

    same thing, as explained above

    One reason is that oil, pooled around the flywheels
    causes severe drag and kills power.

    Having enough to keep it cool and
    wet on the bearings and joints and surfaces
    is sufficient.

    HD's , Race Cars etc are dry sump or total loss...
  5. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    I don't get total loss=dry sump.
  6. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Look at an HD, on touring the oil resevoir is under the trans
    on a softail it's under the seat, that's where you keep oil

    Now if the oil is kept there, it's returned to that container
    during use

    So the oil flows to the engine from the tank, is pumped through
    ports and holes to provide lubrication, then back to the tank.

    Now look at your car, it has an oil pan on the bottom,
    all the oil is pumped up from that pan, like a sump pump in a basement
    up north.

    Dry sump means the engine doesn't hold the oil, it's held elswhere.

    [​IMG]
  7. Fatboy128

    Fatboy128 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a lil slow. Are you saying that dry sump engine is can be considered a total loss engine?!?
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    pretty much, oil is kept out of the working internals of the engines
    for storage purposes, lubrication is delivered by a pump constantly
    to provide a thin film of oil to the places that need oil.

    In a typical small block oil was contained in a bath (oil pan) at the
    bottom of the engine and the crank would dip into it to sling some oil up on the bottom
    while the pump pushes oil up top, all oil uses gravity to return...

    With the oil in the crankcase it creates drag, which reduces power, increased work required to overcome the drag and robs power and mileage.

    If you hear someone telling you your HD engine is sumping it means the oils gathering
    in the bottom of the cases around the flywheels and if it happens you will
    know because power will go lower big time fast...
  9. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    not so sure about that hrk.....dry sump and total loss are different. dry sump would mean that oil is not stored in the sump, but in some place else...an oil tank. total loss would mean that once oil is added, and never refilled, at some point in time there would be no oil left in the system as it all leaked, pumped out.......a dry sump will always have oil if no leakage occurs.........
  10. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    I think you defined it properly Chuck.
    Just because an engine is dry sump doesn't neccesarilly mean it's a total loss system. Harleys are/were total loss b/c they spray oil out and it will eventually spray all the oil out in the atmoshere becoming a total loss, no oil in the system. Car engines do not spray oil out of their system, dry sump or not dry sump, they contain it in a sealed system. They don't have external chains like cycles do.
    Thank you for the help guys, I have learned a lot about my old shovelheads. Stuff I did not already know. I learn everyday and I enjoy it. It's just a hobby for me, not a profession but I love it still. Some guys are into model planes and little toys, not me/us we like big boys toys, err ahh, err ahh~! Toys that make loud noise and ang bang bang bang! Cars, cycles and guns!
  11. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    Should I spend the extra $30 (or so) and get the Jims rebuild kit or just go with the standard kit?
    Should I get new heavy duty shift forks or just standard?
    Last night I bought a DVD on how to rebuild one. $28 hope it's worth it.
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well you beefed up the engine, might as well beef up the trans...
  13. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    Very true. I think I will get all the better parts I can get my greasy lil hands on. Better safe than sorry somewhere down on the side of the road.
  14. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes I run the Jims trap door on my 124
    after it pulled the bearings through the stock trap.
  15. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    You have a H-D tranny?
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    yes hd stock 5 speed in stock cases
  17. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    what kinda 124" motor is in it, SNS?
  18. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes 124 Twin cam, built by SNS (several times due to some "assembly" issues)
    woods 505 rebel CV carb Custom intake from Wes in Pinellas Park IST ignition SNS,
    and heads ported and cleaned up by Bill at Bishops Performance in Detroilet.
  19. Tommyc

    Tommyc Active Member

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    sounds like a runner~! That is exaclty what I would love to have.
    My H-D shovel 103" had some good power but I'm sure the TC 124" would smoke it.
  20. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    and when he starts it up, i can hear it over here in Texas!!!!!!:D:D

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